Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 05-13-2016, 10:34 AM
 
17,624 posts, read 13,415,550 times
Reputation: 33098

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
This is great news. Their idiotic withholding of necessary vaccinations killed their child and endangered others.

It is time to squash this antiVac lunacy!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-13-2016, 10:38 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,157 posts, read 41,350,718 times
Reputation: 45241
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
The former chief reviewed all of the evidence including physician's reports, x-rays, labs, autopsy report, everything in the boys file. She was fully qualified based upon that information to giver her expert opinion.
An opinion biased by a lawsuit against her former employer for five million Canadian dollars and an opinion shared by none of the other professionals in the case.

The information about Hib in the autopsy report was released by the parents and reported by an anti-vax site. That report was not favorable to Ezekiel's parents, and I suspect their attorney advised them not to talk about it after they were arrested.

Despite the ex-ME's protestations that she would not "sell" her soul, the jury did not believe her.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-13-2016, 02:06 PM
 
26,660 posts, read 13,778,953 times
Reputation: 19118
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
An opinion biased by a lawsuit against her former employer for five million Canadian dollars and an opinion shared by none of the other professionals in the case.

The information about Hib in the autopsy report was released by the parents and reported by an anti-vax site. That report was not favorable to Ezekiel's parents, and I suspect their attorney advised them not to talk about it after they were arrested.

Despite the ex-ME's protestations that she would not "sell" her soul, the jury did not believe her.

So funny and telling that you think that the Medical Examiner's office that was accused of serious corruption and who is run by the government aka the prosecution must be 100% truthful but the woman (FCME) who's contract wasn't renewed because she refused to lie and keep quiet about the corruption must have lied in court because she has an open wrongful termination lawsuit. So ridiculous, Suzy.


The jury didn't make their ruling based upon whether it was viral or bacterial meningitis. The jury made their decision based upon whether or not the parents waited too long to take the child to the Dr. I would bet that their decision had more to do with testimony about the toddler being too stiff to sit in his car seat and the parents knowledge that the might have had meningitis at least a full 24 hours before he stopped breathing.


This is the passage that you are using as proof that a vaccine would have saved him.
Quote:
According to “a non-clinical research methodology,” haemophilus influenzae bacteria was identified in his body, but the particular strain was not cultured or identified. There are 6 strains; b is the most common, and b is the only strain for which there is a vaccine. Even so, haemophilus influenzae bacteria can be found in people who never have any illness from it.[/quote] Parents Found Guilty in Toddler's Death - HealthNutNews - Health Nut News
Parents Found Guilty in Toddler's Death - HealthNutNews - Health Nut News

As per trial testimony, the test used to identify bacteria was too iffy to use as evidence of anything.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-13-2016, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,913,054 times
Reputation: 35920
^^I don't think anyone is saying with 100% certainty that the vaccine would have saved the child. But there is certainly a high probability Ezekiel would not have gotten meningitis had he had the vaccine. The incidence of Hib meningitis dropped 99% after the introduction of the vaccine, and Hib was the most common cause of meningitis in small children.

Haemophilus influenzae | Hib | Clinicial Features | CDC
"Due to routine use of the Hib conjugate vaccine since 1990, the incidence of Hib disease in infants and young children has decreased by 99% to fewer than 1 case per 100,000 children younger than 5 years of age. In the United States, Hib disease occurs primarily in underimmunized children and among infants too young to have completed the primary immunization series. In developing countries, where routine vaccination with Hib vaccine is not widely available, Hib remains a major cause of lower respiratory tract infections in infants and children."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-13-2016, 04:43 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,157 posts, read 41,350,718 times
Reputation: 45241
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
So funny and telling that you think that the Medical Examiner's office that was accused of serious corruption and who is run by the government aka the prosecution must be 100% truthful but the woman (FCME) who's contract wasn't renewed because she refused to lie and keep quiet about the corruption must have lied in court because she has an open wrongful termination lawsuit. So ridiculous, Suzy.
The ex-ME was a poor choice for the defense to use, but I suspect she was the only one that was willing to say what she did. She accused the EMTs of asphyxiating the child, you know.

Quote:
The jury didn't make their ruling based upon whether it was viral or bacterial meningitis. The jury made their decision based upon whether or not the parents waited too long to take the child to the Dr. I would bet that their decision had more to do with testimony about the toddler being too stiff to sit in his car seat and the parents knowledge that the might have had meningitis at least a full 24 hours before he stopped breathing.
You forget that your favorite witness denied that he died from meningitis at all. She says the EMTs dunnit. According to her, they even caused his pneumonia. She seems to have ignored the fact that Ezekiel had such severe inflammation of the covering of his brain and spinal cord that he could not flex his neck and torso to sit in his car seat. He clearly had meningitis.

Quote:
This is the passage that you are using as proof that a vaccine would have saved him.

Parents Found Guilty in Toddler's Death - HealthNutNews - Health Nut News

As per trial testimony, the test used to identify bacteria was too iffy to use as evidence of anything.
The defense challenged the test because it is not used clinically; it's a research test. That does not mean it gave false results.

The child's entire clinical course is consistent with bacterial meningitis, and in someone Ezekiel's age who is unvaccinated, Hib is the most likely organism.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-13-2016, 06:13 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
18,773 posts, read 18,184,176 times
Reputation: 14783
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
There isn't anything confirmed regarding HIB being in the autopsy. Suzy is getting her info from an alternative news source, one that she would normally not trust at all called Health Nut News. There is nothing about an official diagnosis coming form the Prosecution's expert witness from any news accounts covering the trial pointing to any definitive diagnosis of HIB. Nothing at all.

I am only a technician; not a doctor. I have helped work on the vaccine for MenA,C,W and Y. I am not familiar with the HIB vaccine; I was administered Menactra 14 days prior to my exposure in the building. I am trying to find out more about the subject only because vaccines, like these, I could possibly work on in the future. I found this one link to what is happening in the UK today: Enter B and W: two new meningococcal vaccine programmes launched.


Vaccines, like the vaccine against MenB talked about in that link; are new. The first information I had suggested the vaccine should only be given to adolescents over 16. However, in that link, they talk about starting immunization at 2 month/4 months/and 12 months of age. They also state that fever accompanies the shot in 51 to 61% of the patients. It would not surprise me if they are not working on serums that do not cause the elevated fever. I am still trying to understand the difference between HIB and the new MenB vaccines - but I am working on it.


What I do know is that nobody wants to catch or die from meningitis. Just Google: "pictures of meningitis patients". Besides the brain damage; you are talking about loss of fingers or toes or both and limb amputations. If there is any way to avoid contracting this disease; it is in our best interest to do so and in the best interest of our loved ones.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-13-2016, 09:03 PM
 
Location: Homeless
17,717 posts, read 13,562,030 times
Reputation: 11994
Been busy the last few days so I missed to much to go back though everything.


Every winter people are pushing you to get the flu shot. I haven't had the shot or the flu for over ten years now. So according to some here I should be sick as a dog come flu season. Damn those herbs & supplements!


Good diet I watch what goes into my body. Some people tent to ignore that eating right will do more good for your immune system then they will admit.


I stay busy not going to the gym but my wife & I are avid hikers. We tend to hike 10-20 miles on the weekends carrying a 15 pound pack. I stay very active at work too. People tend to also ignore how living an active lifestyle can boost your immunity as well.


Perhaps if more people ate better & took care of their bodies & stopped sitting in front of the TV/computer all day.


One last thing. When I was a kid in the 80's you hardly heard of anyone having cancer, these days you hear about it just about every week.. Something to think about before you let someone stick you with a needle.




Cancer Statistics - National Cancer Institute


WHO | Global cancer rates could increase by 50% to 15 million by 2020




I like this part the best according the WHO. Cancer rates could further increase by 50% to 15 million new cases in the year 2020, according to the World Cancer Report, the most comprehensive global examination of the disease to date.


Then there is this part. However, the report also provides clear evidence that healthy lifestyles and public health action by governments and health practitioners could stem this trend, and prevent as many as one third of cancers worldwide.


Tell that to the people who stuff their faces with McDonalds, and crappy foods & sit on their arse all day. BTW if you think chemo, radiation think again it always comes back, ask my mom. Wait you can't.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-13-2016, 09:04 PM
 
26,660 posts, read 13,778,953 times
Reputation: 19118
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
The ex-ME was a poor choice for the defense to use, but I suspect she was the only one that was willing to say what she did.
She is a top experts in her field in Canada. A pretty good choice. She wasn't willing to lie and go along with corruption in order to keep her job but you think she would commit perjury in a court case just because? That's crazy.
Quote:
She accused the EMTs of asphyxiating the child, you know.
Do you really know nothing at all about the case? Or are you just making things up? She did not accuse the EMT's of asphyxiating the child. Where do you come up with these things? Seriously.


Quote:
You forget that your favorite witness denied that he died from meningitis at all. She says the EMTs dunnit. According to her, they even caused his pneumonia. She seems to have ignored the fact that Ezekiel had such severe inflammation of the covering of his brain and spinal cord that he could not flex his neck and torso to sit in his car seat. He clearly had meningitis.
The expert witness stated that he likely had viral meningitis but died due to lack of oxygen which was at least in part due to the 8 minute ride in the ambulance that was not properly equipped with the tools to intubate the boy correctly. She did not blame the EMT's as you claim. Why you would make up that little tidbit is beyond me. She did not ignore anything in the evidence.

Quote:
The defense challenged the test because it is not used clinically; it's a research test. That does not mean it gave false results.
The test was too sensitive to give an accurate and reliable result.

Quote:
The child's entire clinical course is consistent with bacterial meningitis, and in someone Ezekiel's age who is unvaccinated, Hib is the most likely organism.
His symptoms were much more closely matched with viral meningitis. So again, you're not being truthful in your assertions.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-13-2016, 09:25 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,913,054 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
She is a top experts in her field in Canada. A pretty good choice. She wasn't willing to lie and go along with corruption in order to keep her job but you think she would commit perjury in a court case just because? That's crazy. Do you really know nothing at all about the case? Or are you just making things up? She did not accuse the EMT's of asphyxiating the child. Where do you come up with these things? Seriously.


The expert witness stated that he likely had viral meningitis but died due to lack of oxygen which was at least in part due to the 8 minute ride in the ambulance that was not properly equipped with the tools to intubate the boy correctly. She did not blame the EMT's as you claim. Why you would make up that little tidbit is beyond me. She did not ignore anything in the evidence.

The test was too sensitive to give an accurate and reliable result.

His symptoms were much more closely matched with viral meningitis. So again, you're not being truthful in your assertions.
Actually, the EMTs were able to improvise with other equipment they had. They got him stabilized. The kid was dead when they got to him.

Oh, no his symptoms were far more matched to bacterial meningitis. Let's look at this link:
Types of Meningitis
"Bacterial meningitis is usually severe and can even be deadly. For example, though rare, meningococcal meningitis is a type of bacterial meningitis that can cause:

Serious complications, such as amputations, scarring, and brain damage in about 1 in 5 people
Death in 10%-15% of cases even when appropriate antibiotic therapy is used"

Though it can be fatal, viral meningitis is often less severe than bacterial meningitis. Most people with viral meningitis usually recover in 7 to 10 days without specific treatment.


Here's another: Symptoms and causes - Meningitis - Mayo Clinic

"Bacterial meningitis is serious, and can be fatal within days without prompt antibiotic treatment. Delayed treatment increases the risk of permanent brain damage or death. . . . Viral meningitis is usually mild and often clears on its own. Most cases in the United States are caused by a group of viruses known as enteroviruses, which are most common in late summer and early fall."

Yet another:
Is it viral, bacterial or fungal? - NMA
"Bacterial forms of meningitis can be extremely dangerous and fast-moving and have the greatest potential for being fatal. The long-term effects of bacterial meningitis can include multiple amputations, hearing loss and kidney damage. Many (but not all) forms of bacterial meningitis can be prevented by vaccination.
Viral meningitis has similar symptoms to bacterial meningitis, but for the most part is neither as deadly nor as debilitating. There is no specific treatment available for viral meningitis, but most patients fully recover over time."


Every source will tell you that bacterial is more serious and more likely to cause death, that viral is more likely to clear on its own. Ezekiel was very ill. There is little doubt, except from his parents' supporters and their paid accomplices, that he had bacterial meningitis.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-13-2016, 09:49 PM
 
32,131 posts, read 15,116,982 times
Reputation: 13716
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Maryland View Post
Well, anyway, thanks again for being the willing test subjects for the pharma cartels. Better you than me.

Call me when they decide to remove the free rider status from the pharmaceutical companies (you know, the liability shield enacted as law back in the late 80s), as well as the revolving door between those who work at the cdc and the private companies they are supposed to regulate. We'll talk more at that time.

Till then, ha ha, my children are 100% unvaccinated and there is nothing you can do about it.
Not sure why this is so funny to you. If your child gets measles or mumps then they could pass it on to babies who can't get the vaccines until they are older. You may not care if your kids get these preventable diseases but I can assure you that most do.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top