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I think you're making too much of it, OP. There really is no "never forget angle". It's just a slogan that became attached to the event when it happened, and now people say it automatically.
I think you're making too much of it, OP. There really is no "never forget angle". It's just a slogan that became attached to the event when it happened, and now people say it automatically.
But why did it get attached to the event? Tragedies happen all the time. 9/11 certainly had spectacle and scale, but does quantity of murder necessarily make something worse? I mean, 9/11 was politically motivated, whereas the shooting in Aurora was done just because. Which is more evil? Killing for political purpose or killing for essentially no reason at all? In my mind, I'd rather be killed over politics than killed just because someone can.
And it was politics. Bin Laden stated his motives. It was US support of Israel, sanctions imposed on Iraq, and US military presence in Saudi Arabia. From an objective point of view, none of these views are objectively immoral. I support Israel but you have to understand what it looks like to some people. It's a Western colony, essentially. It has a complicated history, and because it's been there for so long, I don't think either side actually has more of a claim to the land than the other, but I can't say that's it's totally unfair to have a problem with Israel's history. Nor do I think it's wrong to be angered by sanctions or have a foreign military presence in your land. If the French Army set up base in Florida, would be like it? No, but we'd probably not fly a plane into the Eiffel Tower either. But regardless, these points are rarely talked about, and they are incredibly relevant. And when they are talked about, it's often met with some BS about how you must hate America to justify the attack, as if saying why that attack happened is justifying that it happened. But that's the "America **** yeah" view that is often aggressively attached to basically anything that can be used for political purpose.
9/11 was an awful tragedy so it's easy to use. But this doesn't mean we shouldn't talk about it objectively, even if that means saying things that scare the easily scared off. Maybe saying Bin Laden's motivation was simply that he hated America should be recognized for what it is: pointless. It doesn't help. It doesn't actually even explain since it still leaves questions. But if we allow ourselves to get more specific, we can objectively evaluate what happened. Certainly nothing can justify the attack, but maybe we can learn a little about ourselves and understand the enemies point of view. As I said, we'd not tolerate a foreign military in our country. We should we expect others? And that's just one example, and I'm not necessarily saying we should pull our military out of everything. But maybe the discussion of 9/11 shouldn't just always be "everyone who isn't us or on our side is pure evil." Because that discussion doesn't seem to have made the threat of terrorism less prevalent.
But why did it get attached to the event? Tragedies happen all the time. 9/11 certainly had spectacle and scale, but does quantity of murder necessarily make something worse? I mean, 9/11 was politically motivated, whereas the shooting in Aurora was done just because. Which is more evil? Killing for political purpose or killing for essentially no reason at all? In my mind, I'd rather be killed over politics than killed just because someone can.
And it was politics. Bin Laden stated his motives. It was US support of Israel, sanctions imposed on Iraq, and US military presence in Saudi Arabia. From an objective point of view, none of these views are objectively immoral. I support Israel but you have to understand what it looks like to some people. It's a Western colony, essentially. It has a complicated history, and because it's been there for so long, I don't think either side actually has more of a claim to the land than the other, but I can't say that's it's totally unfair to have a problem with Israel's history. Nor do I think it's wrong to be angered by sanctions or have a foreign military presence in your land. If the French Army set up base in Florida, would be like it? No, but we'd probably not fly a plane into the Eiffel Tower either. But regardless, these points are rarely talked about, and they are incredibly relevant. And when they are talked about, it's often met with some BS about how you must hate America to justify the attack, as if saying why that attack happened is justifying that it happened. But that's the "America **** yeah" view that is often aggressively attached to basically anything that can be used for political purpose.
9/11 was an awful tragedy so it's easy to use. But this doesn't mean we shouldn't talk about it objectively, even if that means saying things that scare the easily scared off. Maybe saying Bin Laden's motivation was simply that he hated America should be recognized for what it is: pointless. It doesn't help. It doesn't actually even explain since it still leaves questions. But if we allow ourselves to get more specific, we can objectively evaluate what happened. Certainly nothing can justify the attack, but maybe we can learn a little about ourselves and understand the enemies point of view. As I said, we'd not tolerate a foreign military in our country. We should we expect others? And that's just one example, and I'm not necessarily saying we should pull our military out of everything. But maybe the discussion of 9/11 shouldn't just always be "everyone who isn't us or on our side is pure evil." Because that discussion doesn't seem to have made the threat of terrorism less prevalent.
Ummm, you're preaching to the choir, Dude. I am a WTC survivor who has written and spoken about the need to not turn the event into a reason to identify a "them" as an evil entity that needs to be destroyed.
I really was just commenting on the use of the phrase.
Ummm, you're preaching to the choir, Dude. I am a WTC survivor who has written and spoken about the need to not turn the event into a reason to identify a "them" as an evil entity that needs to be destroyed.
I really was just commenting on the use of the phrase.
That's fine. My overall answer wasn't really just for you. I had no indication that you would or would not agree with my point either way. I was just making the point.
That's fine. My overall answer wasn't really just for you. I had no indication that you would or would not agree with my point either way. I was just making the point.
But why did it get attached to the event? Tragedies happen all the time. 9/11 certainly had spectacle and scale, but does quantity of murder necessarily make something worse? I mean, 9/11 was politically motivated, whereas the shooting in Aurora was done just because. Which is more evil? Killing for political purpose or killing for essentially no reason at all? In my mind, I'd rather be killed over politics than killed just because someone can.
And it was politics. Bin Laden stated his motives. It was US support of Israel, sanctions imposed on Iraq, and US military presence in Saudi Arabia. From an objective point of view, none of these views are objectively immoral. I support Israel but you have to understand what it looks like to some people. It's a Western colony, essentially. It has a complicated history, and because it's been there for so long, I don't think either side actually has more of a claim to the land than the other, but I can't say that's it's totally unfair to have a problem with Israel's history. Nor do I think it's wrong to be angered by sanctions or have a foreign military presence in your land. If the French Army set up base in Florida, would be like it? No, but we'd probably not fly a plane into the Eiffel Tower either. But regardless, these points are rarely talked about, and they are incredibly relevant. And when they are talked about, it's often met with some BS about how you must hate America to justify the attack, as if saying why that attack happened is justifying that it happened. But that's the "America **** yeah" view that is often aggressively attached to basically anything that can be used for political purpose.
9/11 was an awful tragedy so it's easy to use. But this doesn't mean we shouldn't talk about it objectively, even if that means saying things that scare the easily scared off. Maybe saying Bin Laden's motivation was simply that he hated America should be recognized for what it is: pointless. It doesn't help. It doesn't actually even explain since it still leaves questions. But if we allow ourselves to get more specific, we can objectively evaluate what happened. Certainly nothing can justify the attack, but maybe we can learn a little about ourselves and understand the enemies point of view. As I said, we'd not tolerate a foreign military in our country. We should we expect others? And that's just one example, and I'm not necessarily saying we should pull our military out of everything. But maybe the discussion of 9/11 shouldn't just always be "everyone who isn't us or on our side is pure evil." Because that discussion doesn't seem to have made the threat of terrorism less prevalent.
9/11 will forever be a difficult topic of discussion on so many levels. Each of us has our beliefs. If at the top of the pyramid your belief is in the country you inhabit and were born in, the red white & blue, and you are thankful for the opportunities here, then there is nothing wrong about discussing overall motives. I for one believe the towers were targeted as symbols of the western civilization Bin Ladin despised. Of course he's a hypocrite, as he was "as bad" in his own way. But for one second I can understand his distaste for the western world, but then quickly applaud in that he got what he deserved.
This country is filled with historical events that of course should never be forgotten. 9/11 is most definitely one of those events that has had a major impact on the future of the country once it occurred. We can say that about the Civil War, MLK, JFK. In different degrees weather events like Katrina and Sandy impacted as many lives as 9/11, if not more. We fear terrorism now more than ever on US soil, and 9/11 is the obvious catalyst of that fear, so by default it's near impossible as an American to forget 9/11.
I understand the importance of the day and I do somberly reflect the thousands of lives that were lost and the ingrained visions of that morning. But it seems to me as each year passes, the general message of never forget almost seems like a plea out of fear that we will forget. Why is there such a strong assumption with 9/11 about forgetting, at least in the message I hear annually?
if you touch a hot stove and burn your hand and you forget you did that, isn't it possible you'll touch the stove again.
and burn your hand again?
BUT, if you remember, its likely you won't get burnt.
This country is filled with historical events that of course should never be forgotten. 9/11 is most definitely one of those events that has had a major impact on the future of the country once it occurred. We can say that about the Civil War, MLK, JFK. In different degrees weather events like Katrina and Sandy impacted as many lives as 9/11, if not more. We fear terrorism now more than ever on US soil, and 9/11 is the obvious catalyst of that fear, so by default it's near impossible as an American to forget 9/11.
I understand the importance of the day and I do somberly reflect the thousands of lives that were lost and the ingrained visions of that morning. But it seems to me as each year passes, the general message of never forget almost seems like a plea out of fear that we will forget. Why is there such a strong assumption with 9/11 about forgetting, at least in the message I hear annually?
It is the justification for a bigger more invasive government and if we forget then they don't have the justification for keeping an eye on us.
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