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Bull manure .You called out nothing, you simply make up your own facts as you go, just as I pointed out in my previous post . I regard gender and sex to be the same . I make the point of why it might make more sense to alter the terms to render the redefinition of gender by liberals moot . And it obviously makes sense from my side, as evidenced by your explosion against it .
OMG LOL All of this is SO SO rich coming from you! Thanks for the entertainment tonight man.
I don't need to quote you to show that you see trans people as less than human, because you don't think they deserve equal rights and to live their lives as they please, as all of us do. Live their lives, with the support of doctors who examine them and interview them and treat them and say that they can and should live their lives the way they want to. You don't want to give at all, not even a little, whether or not if even affects YOUR life, for trans people, and that shows a lot about how you view them.
You don't need to quote me to substantiate false claims you made ? Wow, that's tells the forum all that is needed to know about your integrity . You don't need facts, you are comfortable just making stuff up as you wish , even when it is at odds with everything I have said previously in this thread .
Have a nice night . I don't bother with posters who don't possess the integrity to attempt to be truthful and post truthfully .
And my post 378 STILL remains unanswered , despite my repeated requests for someone to deal with the questions .
Last edited by wallflash; 01-06-2017 at 11:09 PM..
You don't need to quote me to substantiate false claims you made ? Wow, that's tells the forum all that is needed to know about your integrity . You don't need facts, you are comfortable just making stuff up as you wish .
Have a nice night . I don't bother with posters without the integrity to attempt to be and post truthfully .
Again - SO RICH. Anyone who has seen your posts and has even an ounce of support inside for trans people can see how you view them. I can quote you, but I'm not going to waste my time. Even if I do quote you, you will somehow backtrack, deny it, or continue with your same illogical points over and over again. So no, I will not go through your posts to find proof that you do not think trans people should be treated with respect and deserve equality. You say that those who are born barren or with other issues relating to their sex and gender are still humans although they "don't function as designed", but won't say anything similar for trans people (who also "don't function as designed") and you fight any argument supporting them and supporting their lives, every step of the way. I think it's quite obvious how you feel about trans people despite a growing mountain of evidence supporting them and their lives, despite the drift from your mental illness theory (the same theory that once existed about gay people - the LGBT community in general). I have had pages of posts back and forth with you, I don't need to repost anything. Don't pretend like you don't see trans people the way we know you do. Those who agree with you or not can see how you see them and their lives.
Also, please learn how to use periods properly at the end of your sentences.
Since I have taken the time to answer questions put to me, and a couple of points I have made have been ignored, I would like to focus on them and get an actual answer to them. Those of you from the pro trans side please answer me these questions.
In my line of work certain projects have to set aside a certain percentage of work for minority contractors, maybe 25 or 40% of the total. We also have to make attempts to use minority contractors if any bid , even if the minority percentage is met. All things being equal a minority contractor bidding work at the same price as a non minority gets privileged status. Minority meaning non white males. All women owned and non white owned businesses are considered minority businesses.
So, with that being said, would a transgendered woman be considered a minority owned business ?
I don't see why not. As long as people like you don't insist on objecting. You should really be asking yourself this. But I think we know your answer.
If your answer is yes, then the next question would be , would a Caucasian who thought he was a black man be considered a minority owned business because he identifies as black ? Should he be granted minority owned status by the government ( who is the party that comes up with these regulations ) on the basis of his mindset rather than his biological reality?
You know that "identifying as black" and transgenderism are not the same thing. Do not attempt to belittle transgenderism with this made up BS.
Also, you're asking us questions that we can't really know the answers to, as we probably don't work for/in whatever line of work you do, and we probably aren't ones who decide how to classify people as minorities in your specific line of work. If the government decides who is and isn't a minority, then probably yes to the earlier question and probably no to this one. If private individuals do without government interference, then I don't know the answers. They may be bound by law protecting transgender people, though, anyway. AFAIK there are no such laws protecting white people who "identify as black."
On a related note, obesity is now considered a disability under the ADA . Would a person with a body image disorder that caused them to see themselves as fat when they are in fact unhealthily skinny qualify that person for disability as an obese person? Why not, if we are saying that ones perception of ones self is their actual reality?
No, trans people are not seen as having a disability. If the trend is moving away from mental illness, then it is also away from the idea that they have a disability. No, someone with an eating disorder or body image disorder who believes they are obese when they are not would not be considered obese anyway. "Obese" is not just a label but a medical classification that comes with all sorts of diagnosable health issues and health risks. One who is not actually obese will not be called obese, because there is no need to call them obese. They would not have those health issues or be risk factors for them. They will obviously be classified as having whatever disorder they do that leaves them to essentially hallucinate or otherwise "see" the extra body weight that doesn't exist.
I see where you're going with this. Because who doesn't? Trans people are not delusional, nor are they hallucinating or seeing things they do or don't have. Being transgender is not a body image disorder or a disability. We are not saying that one's perception of his or herself is their actual reality - you are. You are the one deciding trans people have a "perception" that isn't true, when it can be and is believed to be much more complex than that.
These really were not pressing questions, or particularly important to transgenderism (more like relating to your unspecified line of work), which is probably why no one answered them, but whatever dude.
And please don't come back and try to claim that the chief psychiatrist and Distinguished Professor of Psychiatry at Johns Hopkins isn't a top psychiatrist .
And you misunderstand if you think I don't believe that being trans is hard wired into the brain. I have plainly said this, if those who disagree with me would simply take the time to read and respond honestly to what I say. I simply disagree that this perception by the brain equals actual gender . The only way it does is if we completely divorce the term gender from biological sexual identity , in which case the use of the term gender is really moot because the objections are not about what to call the transgendered, but the fact of a biological male wanting to be in sensitive areas set aside for biological females . Nobody gives a damn about the guy walking around nude in the men's dressing room proclaiming he identifies as a woman, they object to the guy in the FEMALE dressing room wanting to pretend he is female also .
Now that I have clarified (again) which post my question is in, could you bother responding?
I did respond to your question. I quoted it in my post. You just do not want to hear it. The perception by the brain is gender, even if you choose not to believe it.
As to Dr. McHugh, I do not have to discredit him. Others have already done that.
"He has called homosexuality an 'erroneous desire,' filed an amicus brief to the Supreme Court in opposition to marriage equality, casts transgender women as 'caricatures' of real women, and has argued that the Catholic Church’s sex abuse scandal is the result not of covering up pedophiles but of insufficiently rooting out gay people."
"Though the surgeries at Hopkins ended in 1979, the University continued to study sexual and gender behavior. Today, the SBCU provides consultations for members of the transgender community interested in sex reassignment surgery, provides patients with hormones and refers patients to specialists for surgery.
The Hopkins Student Health and Wellness Center is also working toward providing transgender students necessary services as a plan benefit under the University’s insurance plan ..."
Sorry , but you are the one trying to twist my words . My point is this . If you are going to redefine and twist the term gender out of its historical and typical usage which equates gender with sex, and make it about a selection a person can make and then use to invade the personal spaces of the opposite sex, THEN perhaps the solution is to quit debating about what to call the transgendered and revert back to the terms of biological reality that used to be clearly understood to equate gender , before the PC revision of the term to normalize transgender. And then define these personal spaces by the biological term, so that all the penises are in the male locker room, and all the vaginas are in the female locker room.
Nice try, but no dice .
Being transgendered is not a "selection a person can make".
Being transgendered is not a "selection a person can make".
In terms of how to deal with the gender confusion, sure it is . You can choose to try and adjust your mind to your bodies sex, or you can choose to go with your minds perception of your gender . No doubt people for centuries have been choosing to live against their perception and in line with their biology .
And again , to clarify, I do not in any way care if that choice is to live according to your perception. UNTIL such stupidity starts requiring the rest of the world to pretend that you are what you perceive regardless of biology , and insisting on the right to invade the personal spaces of those of the opposite sex because you mentally identify with them . Live you life as you wish, UNTIL you wish to take your penis and sit nude in a sauna with biological females because you feel like a female . Grow the hell up, understand you have an identity issue, and don't expect the rest of the world to turn upside down to accommodate you . Act like an adult with the intelligence and maturity to recognize there is an issue and approach it properly and with some thought about the rights of the 99.9% of the US that doesn't suffer from the same issue but has to put up with the stupidity of a 17 yr old male being allowed in the locker rooms of young females because he "feels like " a young woman himself .
It looks like a number of states have had my idea about switching to male/female as opposed to men/women before I did .
And as far as court challenges , Trumps immediate appointment will make the court 5-4 conservative, AND the next 3 oldest judges are 2 solid liberals (Ginsberg, Breyer) and the moderate ( Kennedy) . And Trump with the GOP Senate will start filling the huge number of empty federal judgeships across the nation with conservative judges at the lower levels .
Last edited by wallflash; 01-07-2017 at 09:21 AM..
I did respond to your question. I quoted it in my post. You just do not want to hear it. The perception by the brain is gender, even if you choose not to believe it.
As to Dr. McHugh, I do not have to discredit him. Others have already done that.
"He has called homosexuality an 'erroneous desire,' filed an amicus brief to the Supreme Court in opposition to marriage equality, casts transgender women as 'caricatures' of real women, and has argued that the Catholic Church’s sex abuse scandal is the result not of covering up pedophiles but of insufficiently rooting out gay people."
"Though the surgeries at Hopkins ended in 1979, the University continued to study sexual and gender behavior. Today, the SBCU provides consultations for members of the transgender community interested in sex reassignment surgery, provides patients with hormones and refers patients to specialists for surgery.
The Hopkins Student Health and Wellness Center is also working toward providing transgender students necessary services as a plan benefit under the University’s insurance plan ..."
My question was not about the hard wiring of the trans brain, it was about people perceiving themselves to be black when they are not, old when they are not, or fat when they are really not, and whether we should accept them according to their perception vs the biological reality as we are asked to do with the transgendered . Again, post 378 . Nothing in that post about questioning medical professionals . It is about reality vs perception in the real world .
If Rachel Dolezal worked for an employer that was required to employ a certain percentage of black people , should we and could we count her towards that percentage goal? It's a real world question.
Last edited by wallflash; 01-07-2017 at 09:10 AM..
And please don't come back and try to claim that the chief psychiatrist and Distinguished Professor of Psychiatry at Johns Hopkins isn't a top psychiatrist .
And you misunderstand if you think I don't believe that being trans is hard wired into the brain. I have plainly said this, if those who disagree with me would simply take the time to read and respond honestly to what I say. I simply disagree that this perception by the brain equals actual gender . The only way it does is if we completely divorce the term gender from biological sexual identity , in which case the use of the term gender is really moot because the objections are not about what to call the transgendered, but the fact of a biological male wanting to be in sensitive areas set aside for biological females . Nobody gives a damn about the guy walking around nude in the men's dressing room proclaiming he identifies as a woman, they object to the guy in the FEMALE dressing room wanting to pretend he is female also .
Now that I have clarified (again) which post my question is in, could you bother responding?
First, the person sited is the former chief psychiatrist not the current one.
Second, the study he sites is misquoted and makes no assumptions about sex re-assignment surgery being the culprit in this case.
From the authors of the actual study:
Quote:
“The overall mortality for sex-reassigned persons was higher during follow-up (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 1.8–4.3) than for controls of the same birth sex, particularly death from suicide (aHR 19.1; 95% CI 5.8–62.9). Sex-reassigned persons also had an increased risk for suicide attempts (aHR 4.9; 95% CI 2.9–8.5) and psychiatric inpatient care (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 2.0–3.9).” However, those citing your work never seem to note that your study also includes the following very large caveat:
It is therefore important to note that the current study is only informative with respect to transsexual persons health after sex reassignment; no inferences can be drawn as to the effectiveness of sex reassignment as a treatment for transsexualism. In other words, the results should not be interpreted such as sex reassignment per se increases morbidity and mortality. Things might have been even worse without sex reassignment. As an analogy, similar studies have found increased somatic morbidity, suicide rate, and overall mortality for patients treated for bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. This is important information, but it does not follow that mood stabilizing treatment or antipsychotic treatment is the culprit.
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