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Old 03-01-2017, 05:36 AM
 
8,312 posts, read 3,931,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
Minimum Wage Massacre: Wendy's Unleashes 1,000 Robots To Counter Higher Labor Costs | Zero Hedge

Wendy's will start implementing self-ordering Kiosk's at a 1,000 locations this year. Most locations would get 3 kiosks, which would cost $15,000 to set up and would quickly pay for themselves as less employee hours would be needed. They plan on still having the option of ordering with a human while customers acclimatize to it.

Wendy's doesn't have immediate plans, but they are looking at robots that can make a hamburger as well - and make it quicker, sanitary, and perhaps even cheaper now than a human can.

https://singularityhub.com/2014/08/1...food-industry/
Not surprised. The goals and objectives of American corporations are not YOUR goals and objectives. Automation has decreased the need for humans in every office, in every factory, every R&D center. In the engineering field where I work, a rough estimate might be a 10X decline in the number of engineers needed to bring a new product to market, today compared to 1970, due to automation improvements. I am sure it is the same in many other industries.

That's the problem with Trump's fairy land pronouncements about bringing back jobs. Let's put some meat on the bone, Trump - exactly how are you going to do that? For example, the mining industry. The industry is not going to go back to the days of needing thousands of human beings to support deep shaft mining. The emergence of mountain top mining, and automated equipment for underground mining is the main reason why employment has dropped for that industry. It's like Trump is totally oblivious to any of this.

The reality is that the whole society is changing. And we do not have a clue how to deal with it. From what I can see, Trump is the least prepared to lead the new wave of innovation that will be needed to develop new industries and new opportunities.
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Old 03-01-2017, 06:49 AM
 
Location: USA
18,502 posts, read 9,170,177 times
Reputation: 8532
Quote:
Originally Posted by geofra View Post
When the kiosk comes, my business goes. This crotchety old man would rather deal with a person.
Yeah there's no joy in telling a kiosk that it's part of a lazy, worthless generation that has no work ethic.

Last edited by Freak80; 03-01-2017 at 07:04 AM..
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Old 03-01-2017, 07:09 AM
 
51,655 posts, read 25,843,388 times
Reputation: 37895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
Yeah there's no joy in telling a kiosk that it's part of a lazy, worthless generation that has no work ethic.
Well, there is that.
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Old 03-01-2017, 07:12 AM
 
9,727 posts, read 9,733,310 times
Reputation: 6407
Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHeadDave View Post
Not surprised. The goals and objectives of American corporations are not YOUR goals and objectives. Automation has decreased the need for humans in every office, in every factory, every R&D center. In the engineering field where I work, a rough estimate might be a 10X decline in the number of engineers needed to bring a new product to market, today compared to 1970, due to automation improvements. I am sure it is the same in many other industries.

That's the problem with Trump's fairy land pronouncements about bringing back jobs. Let's put some meat on the bone, Trump - exactly how are you going to do that? For example, the mining industry. The industry is not going to go back to the days of needing thousands of human beings to support deep shaft mining. The emergence of mountain top mining, and automated equipment for underground mining is the main reason why employment has dropped for that industry. It's like Trump is totally oblivious to any of this.

The reality is that the whole society is changing. And we do not have a clue how to deal with it. From what I can see, Trump is the least prepared to lead the new wave of innovation that will be needed to develop new industries and new opportunities.

Don't you think that a laborer who previously worked in a mine could easily transition to a construction project to rebuild our infrastructure?
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Old 03-01-2017, 07:31 AM
 
51,655 posts, read 25,843,388 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinm View Post
Don't you think that a laborer who previously worked in a mine could easily transition to a construction project to rebuild our infrastructure?
Sure they could.

But first, they would have to move away from West Virginia, (etc.) which, so far, many have been unwilling to do.

Then they would also have to learn new skills, which, so far, many have been unwilling to do. For example, rigging and working high iron involves a somewhat different skill set than laboring in a mine.

Plus, since there are already ironworkers with these skill sets, the miners would face a fair amount of competition.

But most important, these jobs would only be short-term. Once the bridge, wall, pipeline is built, the work is over and they are back where they started - unemployed and moaning about how unfair this is.

There are job openings right right now for those who are willing to move to where the jobs are and acquire the manufacturing technology skills that are in hot demand.

Why Manufacturers Can
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Old 03-01-2017, 07:36 AM
 
51,655 posts, read 25,843,388 times
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The days of low-skilled laborers making a decent living are about to come to an end.

Pretending that as long as we keep wages low, businesses won't automate is just silly.
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Old 03-01-2017, 07:48 AM
 
4,279 posts, read 1,905,917 times
Reputation: 1266
Quote:
Originally Posted by CentralCarmel View Post
Retraining current workers is already becoming a pipe dream. There are differing limits to human intelligence. Not everyone can be retrained into a worker who's in the top 5% of STEM fields (the few who can't be automated away). Pulling oneself up by bootstraps will not be possible, as there will be no bootstraps.

The problem there is that you are thinking in terms of academic training, not trade based tasks training. Fact is, academic STEM education is often wasted in most fields. That is, only a small percentage of the skills learned in the academic eduction are actually applied.

You can take many fields that are related to STEM education and fast track a given job focus to the average intelligence person who might otherwise have struggled with traditional academic eduction in the field. IT tech focused training courses have proven this over and over through fast track, specific focused training that narrows the process to key concepts and tasks relevant to the field.

You can take all of the key areas of tech that automation will produce and create new jobs that are specific to such narrowed training and train the average Joe to function within the needs of that focus.


Now you may claim that if you can do that, then you can automate those jobs as well, but the fact is that this is that you again run into the cost efficiency issue. Many times it is more efficient to train people to do a job than it is to have a machine do it, even if the cost to produce the machinery becomes viable. There are also areas of focus where human interaction will ALWAYS be preferred to that of the programmed algorithms of a machine.

At the end of the day, just like industrialization, job roles will change, skill sets will change, learning and teaching skills will adapt, and we will move on.

This whole "AI's" will take over the world and humans will starve is more fanciful fiction than it is reality. Times will change, and society will adapt and change with it, often for the better. People fear change, and this fear mongering is nothing more than that core humanistic trait.
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Old 03-01-2017, 07:54 AM
 
8,312 posts, read 3,931,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinm View Post
Don't you think that a laborer who previously worked in a mine could easily transition to a construction project to rebuild our infrastructure?
Kevin, maybe they could if they were willing to move to the work. Even so this is a short term "solution" - in fact it is just a band-aid that will be paid for with tax dollars. What we need are new industries and new innovation that will build actual wealth. Companies making capital equipment, companies producing software, companies that are around for the long haul. The key to making that happen is stimulating R&D and innovation, not trying to resurrect old heat and beat industries.
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Old 03-01-2017, 07:55 AM
 
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
2,940 posts, read 1,814,255 times
Reputation: 1940
Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHeadDave View Post
Kevin, maybe they could if they were willing to move to the work. Even so this is a short term "solution" - in fact it is just a band-aid that will be paid for with tax dollars. What we need are new industries and new innovation that will build actual wealth. Companies making capital equipment, companies producing software, companies that are around for the long haul. The key to making that happen is stimulating R&D and innovation, not trying to resurrect old heat and beat industries.
The easiest new industry that Dems keep pushing for: renewable energy
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Old 03-01-2017, 08:07 AM
 
8,312 posts, read 3,931,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by man4857 View Post
The easiest new industry that Dems keep pushing for: renewable energy
Not sure if "Dems" are the only ones pushing that industry (which really is not new we've been building wind turbines for decades). This is a legitimate industry with a real market, so I'm not sure why you would be opposed to it. A lot of people making a lot of money in that industry.

Do you really believe that the old industries that built the US after WWII are the place to be putting our efforts today? Primary metals? Mining? The one strength that America has is our innovation, we are a nation of inventors. Put some $$ in programs to stimulate innovation, not short term solution like infrastructure rebuilding and propping up the mining industry in Appalachia. Much like DARPA did for the DOD, just do it smarter and better.
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