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But if you want to convince many on the Right, you need to understand and appreciate the concept. This is my explanation, not any excuse to use against Medicare. You won't find a more dedicated to Medicare doc/patient/proponent on this panel than myself.
I dont know what this is supposed to mean. You are re-hashing the same ol' tired arguments that were used against the Medicare Act and every other program that has helped the 99%. I will never buy into these arguments.
I dont know what this is supposed to mean. You are re-hashing the same ol' tired arguments that were used against the Medicare Act and every other program that has helped the 99%. I will never buy into these arguments.
I would simply and politely suggest that you are not coming from the Right or need convincing. I could be wrong of course.
AND..... not everyone needs health insurance either!
What people do need is responsible behavior and good health habits.
Of course they do. No one is infallible. Just because you are healthy means nothing. What happens if you are in an accident and end up in the ER. What happens if you are suddenly diagnosed with a medical issue that needs treatment. Everyone needs to have insurance because you just don't know what's going to happen tomorrow.
Interesting thread. I just wanted to point out that under a single payor sysyem you not only eliminate insurance company profits, you also eliminate many of the insurance company expenses which are currently reflected in the insurance premiums which customers pay. For example, many or maybe even most insurance company jobs would not be needed at all.
Seems all skipped over your posting. As it makes too much common sense.
The last year available on Google - 2011 - the CEO of Kaiser Permanente -made $9,000,000 - nine million dollars in salary and income. The health care industry does make it difficult to find the salaries of it's CEO's
All of the countries with a single payer health care system - people live longer and people are healthier.
And all spend less of GDP then the US of A.
Oh, but we don't want no socialism. We want profits for the big hospitals and big pharma. That's the American way. Screw the patients. Pay the stockholders a good annual dividend.
Of course they do. No one is infallible. Just because you are healthy means nothing. What happens if you are in an accident and end up in the ER. What happens if you are suddenly diagnosed with a medical issue that needs treatment. Everyone needs to have insurance because you just don't know what's going to happen tomorrow.
And more importantly (to me), everyone needs insurance so they don't raise the cost for everyone else. That is, unless one is on the Forbes list of wealthiest people in the world, in which case it's absolutely true that they don't "need" insurance.
And more importantly (to me), everyone needs insurance so they don't raise the cost for everyone else. That is, unless one is on the Forbes list of wealthiest people in the world, in which case it's absolutely true that they don't "need" insurance.
Exactly, everyone doesn't seem to understand this though.
I am truly amazed at both the ignorance/exageration and the utter despicability of some posters I've read.
I, too, had cancer at 23, recognized at 26.
Being going on for several years, in my own body and I IGNORED it, hey I was young, undestructible and all.
When I could no longer ignore the horrible symptoms (you don't want to know, trust me), the system here had me operated in less than ten days, then watched out for me and made HC available without any more stress than already was, and etc etc, no one wants to know.
20 years later, it's still probable that I'll get another cancer attack, at least I've been waiting for it. ANY act (preventive) I do is free of charges. My country considers that it's better to get ahead of bad health.
Twice a year, I do a mammography to check (that costs a lot). I know that I am LUCKY!
Someone said (Dane, I think! by the way, very good posts for a lurker) that being lucky is never having to get one's money back concerning HC. He's right.
I AM lucky. Not in the sense I'll never be ill again, but in the sense that I now know that it will be taken on time.
Here, healthcare is so basically a right that noone would dare to challenge it. (some right wing politicians -equal to your DNC- might brag about doing it, but no, never)
How is it paid for? Everyone. Directly from the salary your employer gives you (and other ways for self employed people).
I could tell you hundreds of stories, but they are not mine and it wouldn't suffice for some of you.
And, YES, university (college I guess) is also available, not free exactly (as then, you are not in your parent's charge, so you pay something like 500€/year for social security/ie health care).
We're probably in no better shape than you (economically), but there is something we have that some of you don't : compassion and a sense of belonging to a society.
How incredible that the only western country that STILL calls itself christian is so backwards and selfish.
Why don't you ask all the American single payer advocates if they'll flatten income tax rate brackets, like France. AND implement a 20% VAT tax on top of that, like France.
They won't. They'll scream holy hell because they REFUSE to pay for what they want: single payer like France has. But they want it anyway. You see, unlike the French, they're COMPLETELY UNWILLING to pay for what they want.
FYI, France income tax brackets (in Euros, 1 Euro = $1.0562, so they're approximately the same value):
Up to 9,710: 0%
9,710 to 26,818: 14.0%
26,818 to 71,898: 30.0%
71,898 to 152,260: 41.0%
152,260+: 45.0%
In the US, a 30%-ish tax bracket isn't reached until...
$91,900 to $191,650: 28%
$191,650 to $416,700: 33%
Now, ask how many middle class Americans would be willing to be in the upper end of a 30% tax bracket PLUS pay a 20% VAT tax on top of that.
So I should have just died in 2002? My wife in 2004, 2008, 2012, or on Jan 1 of this year? I like nature like the next guy, but your solution is just sick!
It is. And he is exactly the type that should have an early demise.
Why don't you ask all the American single payer advocates if they'll flatten income tax rate brackets, like France. AND implement a 20% VAT tax on top of that, like France.
They won't. They'll scream holy hell because they REFUSE to pay for what they want: single payer like France has. But they want it anyway. You see, unlike the French, they're COMPLETELY UNWILLING to pay for what they want.
FYI, France income tax brackets (in Euros, 1 Euro = $1.0562, so they're approximately the same value):
Up to 9,710: 0%
9,710 to 26,818: 14.0%
26,818 to 71,898: 30.0%
71,898 to 152,260: 41.0%
152,260+: 45.0%
In the US, a 30%-ish tax bracket isn't reached until...
$91,900 to $191,650: 28%
$191,650 to $416,700: 33%
Now, ask how many middle class Americans would be willing to be in the upper end of a 30% tax bracket PLUS pay a 20% VAT tax on top of that.
Here you go again. First off, Americans pay property taxes, payroll taxes, state income taxes and local income taxes on top of federal income taxes. Since every country fund their systems differently, all taxes for Americans must be included (Americans pay high property taxes relative to the rest of the world because schools are funded in a highly regressive manner to keep people poor).
Americans wouldnt have a problem with paying higher taxes to pay for universal programs like we already do for very popular programs like Medicare, SS, public schools etc. The problem which you guys dont seem to understand is that Americans have been subject to a class warfare by the donor class for decades and massive amounts of money have been transferred to the donor class that own the politicians you vote for. Raise the minimum wage to a living wage, strengthen the unions and get big money out of politics which makes the current political system highly corrupt then we can talk about "flattening the tax rates".
Americans ALREADY pay for nearly half all health care costs in taxes. You dont need a 20% VAT and much higher taxes on the poor and the middle class to get another $1 trillion or so in revenue.
And more importantly (to me), everyone needs insurance so they don't raise the cost for everyone else. That is, unless one is on the Forbes list of wealthiest people in the world, in which case it's absolutely true that they don't "need" insurance.
Exactly. Has anyone heard of preventative care? My insurance company offers a $0 copay for enrollees to take an annual physical so the doctor can catch minor problems before they become big problems. Why? Because it saves the insurance company money, and when the insurance company saves money, everyone saves money. And when all Americans have health insurance, they go to the doctor when the ailment is mild and they can afford to go, rather than waiting and going to the emergency room when the ailment has blown 100x worse than it was before and costs a ton of money for taxpayers to treat.
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