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How is your lack of improving your lot in life MY fault or responsibility? What else do you think I should be required to pay for so you don't have to pay for it yourself? Can I just decide, screw it I'm not going to work anymore or take some near minimum wage job and you'll pick up my tab?
What makes you think you have ANY right to anything I've earned by MY own hard work, education and effort? Furthermore, since you apparently think you have some right to it, why not drag your sorry butt over here and try to take it from me? At least that way you wouldn't be a worthless coward hiding behind the force of government.
No one has a right to vote to steal the property or earnings (which is property) of another.
James Madison (known as the Father of the Constitution because he wrote most of it) said, "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
That statement by James Madison CLEARLY states that Congress has no authority to tax from one person in order to give benevolence (charity) to another.
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Originally Posted by workingclasshero
how is it you barely make over 10k??? less than min wage??? what do you do deliver newspapers??
find a better job that fits your skill set
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Originally Posted by Nor Cal Wahine
It's really just too damn bad that whining and poor-mouthing one's condition on the internet doesn't pay anything, because people sure spend a lot of their free time doing it.
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Originally Posted by KS_Referee
How is it an attack by my demanding to know, by what right one claims a portion of what I or anyone else earns to pay for anything they WANT?
What right do YOU have to my earnings, and WHY do you think you have ANY right to it?
That isn't attacking, that is asking a question of someone seeking to engage in THEFT.
How am I responsible for that person's lot in life. 20 years working and they still make little money? Again, how is that my responsibility or the responsibility of anyone but the person making those earnings?
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Originally Posted by KS_Referee
Whose fault is it that you make 10K a year, MINE, someone else?
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Originally Posted by ringwise
And how long do you think those "rich" will stand working hard, when you sit around doing nothing, yet you both benefit equally? I'll help you out here: not long.
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Originally Posted by KS_Referee
PuhLEASE... I double dog dare you to bring your $10K/year earning rear to MY home and try to take that which you think you are entitled of MY earnings. I dare you.
You want to use your vote to STEAL from others. By what right do you make ANY claim to what another has earned?
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Originally Posted by KS_Referee
Your lot in life is a result of YOUR efforts, intelligence, sacrifice and education... NOT mine.
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Originally Posted by Nor Cal Wahine
Aw geez. You're not even trying here.
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Originally Posted by KS_Referee
Why isn't the person that was being replied to working a 2nd job if they're only making $10K? Why do they have internet if they only make $10K? I bet that person has a smart phone with internet on it as well.
At what point are we allowed to look at another person and proclaim, "Your lot in life is precisely what it is due to YOUR effort, education talent and choices"?
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Originally Posted by Nor Cal Wahine
Wrong. Your lifestyle choices got you to where you are today. Ride them out and take care of your own business. Things will get better if you stay the course. Whining about it online all the time does nothing but wear your mind out.
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Originally Posted by Nor Cal Wahine
Your kids will grow up and your expenses will decrease. You'll have the flexibility to move to a more affordable and smaller home.
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Originally Posted by AnywhereElse
Of course not. One doesn't need a high salary to afford health insurance. One needs to learn to budget the money they have. I had neighbors, they had a child, since they weren't illegal aliens, they had to pay the bill themselves. She worked a full-time job, the husband worked a full-time job and 2 part-time jobs and they paid the bill they ran up at the hospital. They weren't even complaining about it or wanting anyone else to pay it for them.
If they making $10K, that person should apply for Medicaid or simply do what most people do, pay as they go. There are clinics most places with sliding scales and charitable organizations.
Yeah, and if I don't have kids, why should pay for the schools? Why should I be forced to have pregnancy covered if I am too old or sterile? Why should I have pay taxes to support the National Park system when I don't use it?
Liberals want to bring it down to free stuff at the personal level. Not "good of the country" but the "me, me, me" thing.
I realize it is a foreign concept to liberals, but there is something called "personal responsibility", something mommy and daddy obviously failed to teach, so blame them for having to face the harsh reality involved in the real world, not everyone else who already has enough burden without adding that of the liberals looking for "free, free, free".
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Originally Posted by workingclasshero
ok so you have health problems
do they prevent you from working a steady job?? do these heath conditions prevent you from obtaining a skill?
if so they why haven't you gotten disability??
if you cant work, or don't have a job, then why aren't you getting assistance from the very generous government and are on Medicaid??
you stated later that with your obesity come lung problems.... I will aso add diabetes, and lower joint problems too..........ALL covered under SSDI and other disability probrams
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Originally Posted by KS_Referee
So what? Am I responsible for you not pushing yourself away from the dinner table? If so, HOW am I responsible? I didn't cause your lot in life, YOU did.
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Originally Posted by KS_Referee
Wasting money? Exactly who the hell are you to say what another can do with their earnings? Where do you get that supposed right?
You and you alone are responsible for where you are in life. Not anyone else.
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Originally Posted by KS_Referee
A leech or parasite seeks to live off others. Which are you?
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Originally Posted by workingclasshero
the rich already pay their share, your share, my share..
NO one should pay more of a percentage that someone else....doesn't matter what level you come from
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Originally Posted by ringwise
Obesity is not a health issue that I should be expected to fund you for. It is somebody's fault - your's.
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Originally Posted by ringwise
Why on earth should that be the case? You do realize you're advocating theft, don't you?
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Originally Posted by KS_Referee
Nothing (good or service) is free in life. Someone must pay. You just want to sit on your rear demanding someone else pay for your goods and services.
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Originally Posted by ringwise
Actually, you are. You are asking the "rich" to pay for your healthcare.
You've made bad choices, the "rich" have made good ones. Why should they be punished, and you rewarded?
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Originally Posted by ringwise
Yes, you are. You want "free" healthcare.
For the record, hurting your back does not cause weight gain. I have a very bad back, so I know this.
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Originally Posted by workingclasshero
uhm child support is not supposed to be your income... its what the egg donor mother or sperm donor father gives the other to help raise her/his kids
you shouldn't have been 'banking' on child support as an income
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Originally Posted by KS_Referee
Oh but you ARE asking, no demanding, we pay for a portion of what you consume. By demanding we fund your healthcare, because you wouldn't push yourself away from the dinner table, eating gobs more calories than you were burning, causing additional health problems yet we the collective are somehow responsible for your lot in life, responsible to pay for your healthcare, probably even pay for the very food you stay fat on?
Wow... just WoW!
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Originally Posted by KS_Referee
Because you haven't EARNED living a different lifestyle. Your existence does not grant you a right to what another has earned. How can you not see your demands are THEFT?
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Originally Posted by BentBow
Install floors!
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Originally Posted by ringwise
Ah, the old "I'm just not lucky enough to be successful" excuse. Hogwash. Everybody has opportunities. Some take them, some squander them.
You've mentioned that you're very successful (one might say "think you're better than everyone else"). Do you donate most of your income to those less fortunate, I mean "unlucky", leaving you with just the barest to survive on?
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Originally Posted by Timmyy
Your cardiologist must love you.
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Originally Posted by KS_Referee
I give a damn whether or not you like the fact that there are different outcomes for people in their lives. I donate a lot to charity. I donate time and effort to help. What I cannot accept is some scumbag, demanding I OWE them something from MY earnings because they don't have my successes. No one but me is entitled to decide what I do with my earnings. No one has ANY right to demand I pay for something they want when I have to pay for the same thing if I were to get it for my self. My earnings are MY property, NOT yours.
Quit advocating THEFT of another person's property!
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Originally Posted by KS_Referee
I was a badly abused child. My father was a drunk and my mother beat me to the point of being hospitalized numerous times. I was neglected so bad I spent a month in the hospital at the age of 12. I left home at 15 and went into the foster care system. I still graduated HS. Then I went to work. I learned a trade but decided I wanted more in life. After working several years, I went to college and still worked, paying for most of college as I went, then paying off what little I borrowed within 4 years of graduating college. I EARNED an electrical engineering degree. No one handed it to me. I sold myself to a potential employer & they liked what they saw. We had an excellent relationship even after I retired AND I retired early on my savings that, via my own sacrifice, is pretty substantial. I will get my full retirement, a retirement I EARNED when I turn 65.
Don't tell me it can't be done. Don't tell me I can't understand. Don't give me all the BS excuses. I lived a nightmare life as a child. In 3 years as a foster child I was in 30 different placements because I was so unaccustomed to being a "normal" child due to my violent upbringing. I had to learn to be different than I was taught all my life.
Fortunately one of my first foster parents taught me to pay myself by saving and investing a portion of everything I earned. I worked at a couple minimum wage jobs for a short period. I made those sacrifices and now I live a very nice life. Don't tell me it can't be done.
I WASN'T lucky. I EARNED what I earned and what I've got. You didn't earn ANY of what I have for me, "I" did.
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Originally Posted by NxtGen
Isn't always the people who have nothing demanding we all sacrifice to help the people who have nothing?
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Originally Posted by NxtGen
I am sure he has some excuse as to why he can't do that either.
I bet if he had the choice between starving and doing it, he would find a way.
That party has been hijacked by Ayn Rand & her acolytes & bought off by libertarian legislator lawyer lobbyist lapdogs. Jesus would likely be cast as a "dependent" & a "parasite" in her novel-based philosophy:
"The man who attempts to live for others is a dependent. He is a parasite in motive and makes parasites of those he serves ..." -Ayn Rand
You might not want to fund someone else's surgery, but perhaps that person doesn't want to fund the roads you drive on.
The point is that compromises are made so that everyone gains something from public expenditure.
I don't think Americans understand how to compromise. They're always screaming at each other instead.
Is there any other developed nation whose population is so angry and argumentative? I doubt there is.
I get where you're coming from. Sometimes I wonder if American people will ever have the freedom to discard or dismiss or admit the mistakes of this dystopian ideology? Particularly when the mythologies have been punctured & rendered useless or impotent by reality & in the free & unfettered marketplace of ideas.
That party has been hijacked by Ayn Rand & her acolytes & bought off by libertarian legislator lawyer lobbyist lapdogs. Jesus would likely be cast as a "dependent" & a "parasite" in her novel-based philosophy:
"The man who attempts to live for others is a dependent. He is a parasite in motive and makes parasites of those he serves ..." -Ayn Rand
<3
Yes, exactly.
And that quote, which so many embrace the philosophy of, flies in the face of what Christianity is supposed to be about.
What I find very interesting is that no libertarian can name a single country in which libertarianism actually existed and flourished. Yes, some libertarian ideals are to be embraced but so are social democratic ideals too. The other thing is, we've shown on this thread and many others where socialist democratic ideals like UHC, public education, maternity/paternity/family leave, public daycare and eldercare work and work very well. Yet, the libertarians in our midst willfully ignore these examples.
I don't think our salaries should dictate the level of education and healthcare we receive. We should all pay a tax towards these things - a flat tax. Those above a certain income level should have anything say above $250,000 taxed higher.
But anyone that is only making poverty wages should be exempt. All their money is already going to cover their basic needs.
Yet you can tell another poster they shouldn't have internet service. Nevermind the fact that internet service typically costs $30 per month or so and health insurance can be 3-4x that much per month.
What's really funny is that people like you, Nor Cal Wahine, etc. don't understand that if we had UHC, people like LowOnLuck would actually be freer to seek out more opportunities to make money because her insurance wouldn't be tied to a ****ty paying job.
Well I get state medicaid, so it is not tied to an employer, but I have tried to use that to sell myself to potential employers. My employer now does not provide my health insurance and I still could not get them to bump me to a hire wage.
I do look all the time for new jobs. I have applied to every local government job I can do that pays at least my current wage, for the last 20 years. I have a friend that works at Target and makes way better money. It almost would have been better for me to get a job their at 20 and stay for years.
Last edited by LowonLuck; 05-11-2017 at 06:08 AM..
Choosing to help is one thing. But when the state comes in and mandates that you help regardless of whether you want to or not, then we have a problem. When the State forces you to give away what you own, under the penalty of imprisonment, then we have a problem. Being unlucky or untalented does not give you the right to put a gun to the head of another and demand his property and his life. A society that does that is not worth saving.
By all means, help everyone you want. But it stops there. You don't get to put a gun to the heads of other citizens and demand that they help anyone. We should be free to help, or not help, as we see fit. Helping should be voluntary, nor compulsory.
Once you put that gun to another's head, your not helping anymore. You're robbing and threatening and killing. Any help that is obtained that way is an evil corruption of what helping is supposed to be. You don't tell someone either you help me or you die. That's immoral.
While I don't like UHC your post "proves too much." Any governmental service, such as roads or more prominently education forces one citizen to help another. My problem with health care is with degree. Health care is a large portion of people's budgets and a growing and too large portion of national expenditures. The current use of UHC is blatantly to force a redistribution of wealth, and has perverse effects compared, say, to schooling.
Schooling of children arguably benefits everyone. Government support of health care benefits those who chose to go uninsured. Too often that choice was driven be a desire to live a higher lifestyle. In the case of the poor, UHC encourages greater reproduction, something we don't need from people who otherwise have problems both supporting themselves and being present to provide a strong upbringing for their children.
You might not want to fund someone else's surgery, but perhaps that person doesn't want to fund the roads you drive on.
The point is that compromises are made so that everyone gains something from public expenditure.
I don't think Americans understand how to compromise. They're always screaming at each other instead.
Is there any other developed nation whose population is so angry and argumentative? I doubt there is.
Agreed. I loathe military spending. I hate that we have soldiers in foreign countries. I think we should have a military force comparable to Canada and nothing more. But that is important for some, and healthcare for all is important to me.
Magritte, you are so full of self-righteousness and self-congratulatory backpats that you don't even recognize intentional trolling when it's right in front of your face. Others do however, and decide to not play along. You sneer down your nose instead and make huge sweeping generalizations that we're demonstrating crappy Christian values. As if we're even all Christians.
Get. Over. Yourself.
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