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Please note that health payment programs do NOT provide care for the ill. They provide PAYMENT for that care and are effectively preventing bankruptcy by both the users and the providers. Insurance makes certain that the doctors and other personnel are paid as well as the owners of the system, principally hospital investors, bankers and Big Pharma, always manage to get sufficient return on their investment to stay in that business.
I am in strong favor of a government operated health payment system that is paid for by a substantial tax on the investor class (over the 95 percentile) and used to pay for the health care of everyone. The problem with this transfer of wealth from the wealthy to the not wealthy is contrary to the design of our economy which is set up to transfer real wealth from the lower tier (90th percentile and under) to the upper 10%. That this must be supported is a basic tenant of the Religion of Greed that dominated our economy and our government.
Note: One of the reasons I advocate the downward transfer of wealth is I will never, under current circumstances, ever be in the over 90th percentile unless I win Powerball. If my system is in effect and I do win a multimillion dollar Lottery I would have most of it taken in taxes. So what! The remainder would allow me to live more opulently than my current income. That would be nice but is not necessary.
You are just parroting right wing talking points with no thinking at all. Socialism? Redistribution? You dont know what this is at all.
Exactly.
And many of the people parroting this crap likely choose to not eat particularly healthfully, they probably don't exercise, many of them probably smoke and drink too much, etc. THEY cost all of us money, because we ALL end up paying for THEIR poor choices -- with higher insurance costs. Quite frankly, they've got nerve trying to try to pass themselves off as the rugged individualists they love to think they are. Total frauds is what they are.
Unfortunately, there will always be stupid people who choose to neglect their greatest wealth - their health. And no matter which you we slice the pie -- universal healthcare or the US's big business model of healthcare system -- we all end up paying for them. There's no getting around it. That's life.
But, first, universal healthcare is more cost efficient with better outcomes. Study after study after study proves that. Most important, however, universal healthcare is the civil, humanitarian choice for countries that believe that a great healthcare system need not, and should not, be BIG business.
It would mean you would experience first hand what living in a third world hellhole that you advocate would be like. And you wouldnt like it. This isnt surprising. Working class folks in the rest of the developed world are just like working class folks in America. Once they see the advantages of it, they fight to keep it.
I grew up in a working class family where money was tight, so I know all about that lifestyle. I'm just not willing to go against my own values for any reason.
Honestly, I think it says a lot about some people that they can't possibly imagine someone being truly dedicated to their principles. Unfortunately it is a rare thing, and most people can't seem to do it, clearly.
The effects that you perceived in your facilities in your state are not necessarily representative of the entire country.
Try looking outside your bubble.
Premiums and deductibles have gone sky high and many insurance companies are even doing away with copays for office visits and routine medical care, so a simple checkup that used to be covered by a $35.00 copay, is now an out of pocket expense that goes towards peoples now massively expensive deductibles.
How do I know this?
Because that's what happened to me.
Oh ... so your individual bubble is less limiting than mine. Right.
Why do you think these countries can afford to do this?
Because of the aid they receive from us in various forms, not the least of which is providing for their national defence.
Thats not true. Just another myth. America spends more tax dollars on health care than these other countries do. We pay for a national health care system but dont get it. Why? Because the insurance corporations and big pharma, and hospitals engage in price gouging and legalized bribery of Congress on an epic scale in order to rip off the American people. And you defend it!
Ah, but many of them do having worked and lived here in the United States.
I could turn that argument around to you. You don't know anything different than what we have here in the states, so how could you possibly know what its like to live in another country with a different health system?
Who is going to be footing the bill for basic infrastructure and emergency services?
Cooperative private funding from business and individuals who wish to use them.
For example.....If you would like a swimming pool, but can't afford one on your own, you could take up a collection from others in your community who would also like a pool and fund it that way....no government involvement necessary.
Im sure you think everything you have is something you earn for being so hard working, right?
Well, the opportunity to work and be a productive member of society is not equal for everyone.
Go tell that to the son of two poor crack addicts who live in a trailer park with 9 kids that have nothing to eat and where the dad ends up killing the mom by beating her up and the kids have seen nothing but filth, violence and misery. Go tell them they deserve what they were born into and you deserve yours!
I think I have made it clear in ALL my posts (and If I didn't, I should have) on all threads that address the question of poverty in ANY form that I definitely do not believe that children should suffer because of the bad choices of their parents! And I also don't think that everyone who is poor or unfortunate are so because they made bad choices. I freely acknowledge that many of these people have been victims of bad luck and/or circumstances. And I also freely admit that YES, you are correct in saying that the opportunity to work and be a productive member of society is not equal for everyone; that is DEFINITELY true. And yes, I also admit that some privileges I did NOT earn but they were granted to me because I am Euro-white and because I and most of my ancestors going back to the 18th and 19th centuries were born in the U.S. and also because at least most of them did work hard and had good values. (However, I certainly do not feel any guilt for that fact.)
However, I wish you would have replied to the post to which you responded, which was: "I think you need to reread your post because I can't believe that people never earn "anything"they have. To just give one example, I would love for you to tell that to a boy who spent all summer mowing lawns to get a new video system he wanted. I think his reaction would be something to behold! I would, however, like for you to explain exactly what you did mean, though."
But to answer your question: Yes, I definitely believe that people who work for hard for what they have DO deserve to choose what they do with their "wealth" (and in many cases, this "wealth" is not all actually all that much except in comparison to truly poor people.)
Last edited by katharsis; 05-08-2017 at 10:43 AM..
I grew up in a working class family where money was tight, so I know all about that lifestyle. I'm just not willing to go against my own values for any reason.
Honestly, I think it says a lot about some people that they can't possibly imagine someone being truly dedicated to their principles. Unfortunately it is a rare thing, and most people can't seem to do it, clearly.
This is just posturing. When libertarians are cornered, it turns out that they really are just counting on riding their luck, hoping they wont be the one who would have to face the consequences of the policies they support. If they have two small children, their wife dies of cancer while the husband gets permanently paralyzed and blind, suddenly all the empty rhetoric about taxes being theft and modern day slavery flies out the window.
Universal health would be funded by taxes. If you don't pay what tax is claimed, men with guns will kidnap and cage you.
And for any health care worker who would refuse to treat, the same fate awaits.
What planet are you living on ? No health care worker would be arrested and jailed for "refusing to treat". Ugh. You alt-right people keep coming up with more and more ridiculous arguments.
If you don't pay your taxes, there's a slim chance you'll go to jail. There's a large chance that your assets will be seized. Your mind is not in the real world at the moment. You need to reset.
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