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I am beginning to believe the issue at the core of the "Pro-Life" movement is abstinence, not abortion. The hard-core pro-lifers are also against birth control, support abstinence-only sex-ed, and will shame any girl who gets pregnant, even if they keep the baby, because they dared to defy the rules of the fundamentalists and have sex before marriage. They oppose free distribution of things such as condoms to help prevent unwanted pregnancies. Why else would they shame teenagers who get pregnant? They should be supportive of them for keeping the baby but instead they consider them "whores" because they had sex.
That's also why they also support laws making it harder to adopt children and oppose helping those who choose to have their babies. It's not about the children. It's about controlling women. They want to make sure life is as difficult as possible for young women who have sex out of wedlock.
Now I want to say I don't think this is the case for all pro-lifers. There are some pro-life arguments I actually am sympathetic to. However, it seems the most vocal conservative pro-lifers are really about promoting a society where women stay pure until marriage, as the Bible demands.
I don't know if there are even statistics available for this.....
But I'd guess the actual number of people that think this way and consider themselves "pro life" or at least against unfettered abortion on demand, is actually pretty low.
Sounds more like a stereotype put forth by the left, pro abortion crowd to paint anyone who's against abortion as some type of extremist.
I have a hard time with this. Early term pregnancies are just a pile of cells. I wonder if viability is where the line should be drawn.
Do you believe the right to life should be determined by the current state of neo natal care? I think what is considered viable now is different than 30 years ago?
How can you determine at what point that growing "pile of cells" become a human life? That is why I go for at conception everything else seems arbitrary to me. At conception many factors from basic intelligence, hair color, probably many personality traits, etc, etc are determined and the cell starts on a steady uninterrupted course of developing.
I don't know. That is why I am exploring the topic with you good people!
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And if the mother doesn't have her "big" ultrasound until 22-24 weeks (which is not uncommon) and they find the child has a terminal defect like anencephaly, why would you force them to deliver a child that will die at birth or soon afterwards?
Ok. Good food for thought.
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I agree with the blue and that many people need to take a step back and stop acting like people who get abortions, especially those after 16 weeks, are just going out and getting pregnant and using a dangerous procedure at this stage, as "birth control." It is very disrespectful and inconsiderate of the family's circumstances who are faced with difficult medical decisions.
Eliminating any sort of abortion service is you and others believing you know what is best for a family and their circumstance. You don't and it is none of your business.
Ok. Fair. BUT. Do we not also adhere to the notion that killing is wrong? Your example is not killing if the child would die anyway. But, common or not, late term abortions ARE done casually.
Why would you make any exceptions if you consider it murder, so you condone murder under special circumstances?
I can only answer for myself. The physical health of the woman should come first. She shouldn't have to risk her life to save the baby.
In cases of rape, etc., the mental health of the victim should be of primary concern.
It does nobody any good to force women to have babies that may be a result of rape, incest, etc.
And with regard to abortion, not everyone believes as I do, that the fetus is a life, so the choice they make is a personal one.
Nothing hypocritical about it, in my mind. Would you prefer people like me take the stance that we need laws to protect life even though you may not agree?
I have a hard time with this. Early term pregnancies are just a pile of cells. I wonder if viability is where the line should be drawn.
I don't know enough about pregnancy to know whether you're right or wrong, but your heart's in the right place.
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Originally Posted by Eeyore1954
Do you believe the right to life should be determined by the current state of neo natal care? I think what is considered viable now is different than 30 years ago?
How can you determine at what point that growing "pile of cells" become a human life? That is why I go for at conception everything else seems arbitrary to me. At conception many factors from basic intelligence, hair color, probably many personality traits, etc, etc are determined and the cell starts on a steady uninterrupted course of developing.
Your heart is not in the right place. What you are practicing right now is destructive, impulse-driven nihilism (assuming you mean you see something wrong with aborting life forms that lack brains). You are choosing to protect life that cannot feel pain and that lacks a sense of awareness at cost to the mother.
I don't know whether your statements are just a result of carelessness or what, but you need to stop it because your mentality is dangerous
Do you believe the right to life should be determined by the current state of neo natal care? I think what is considered viable now is different than 30 years ago?
How can you determine at what point that growing "pile of cells" become a human life? That is why I go for at conception everything else seems arbitrary to me. At conception many factors from basic intelligence, hair color, probably many personality traits, etc, etc are determined and the cell starts on a steady uninterrupted course of developing.
I guess the fact that it is arbitrary is what makes me fall on the other side.
Location: Born & Raised DC > Carolinas > Seattle > Denver
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Unfortunately, many pro-lifers are too close-minded and self-centered to realize that their opinion doesn't mean anything. They do not possess the ability to think beyond themselves and consider that other people might disagree with them and feel differently about issues.
Earth to pro-lifers: Nobody cares what YOU think. But some folks just can't understand that not everything will cater to their opinions, whether they're religious beliefs or just personal opinions.
For example: I think Trump is an idiot. He has zero political experience, has no business being president, and should immediately step down. But that won't happen because nobody cares what I think. I understand that.
But some folks believe that abortion should be illegal, outside of very specific circumstances. Some (not all) of these people can't fathom that not everybody agrees with them. Some of them believe that because their religious beliefs are against abortion, that it should be the law of the land for all people. That is simply not the case.
Unfortunately, many pro-lifers are too close-minded and self-centered to realize that their opinion doesn't mean anything. They do not possess the ability to think beyond themselves and consider that other people might disagree with them and feel differently about issues.
Earth to pro-lifers: Nobody cares what YOU think. But some folks just can't understand that not everything will cater to their opinions, whether they're religious beliefs or just personal opinions.
Huh. I care what they think. I know many an atheist who has serious reservations about abortion on demand as a form of basically birth control. I do not think that religious objections should be codified into law, for sure. But our country accepts that killing is wrong. Where the line lives is where it gets fuzzy.
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For example: I think Trump is an idiot. He has zero political experience, has no business being president, and should immediately step down. But that won't happen because nobody cares what I think. I understand that.
But some folks believe that abortion should be illegal, outside of very specific circumstances. Some (not all) of these people can't fathom that not everybody agrees with them. Some of them believe that because their religious beliefs are against abortion, that it should be the law of the land for all people. That is simply not the case.
True but it is by far far far the most common objection. Just look at the group overlap. For every 1 non religious hard core pro-life person I bet you could find 100 religious hard core pro-life people. Talking about the life begins at conception no abortions ever for no reasons crowd. In my experience most of the "non religious" reasons people give for being against abortion are just regurgitated talking point smoke screens covering their actual religious motivation.
Last edited by zzzSnorlax; 05-25-2017 at 08:24 AM..
Location: Born & Raised DC > Carolinas > Seattle > Denver
9,338 posts, read 7,114,351 times
Reputation: 9487
Fair point, somebodynew. But my original point still stands that, while many object abortion, many are also for it. So abortion will remain legal, regardless if some people hate it.
And though I myself am pro-choice, I do understand and I am compassionate with people who are against abortion. I realize why many are aaginst it. But I also respect people's right to do whatever they want to with THEIR bodies.
That is actually my philosophy with life in general. If you're gay, Muslim, transsexual, Christian, whatever. Who am I to tell somebody else what to do with their body or how to live their lives?! Just don't push your beliefs on me and I'm okay with everyone being themselves. I have a really hard time understanding how everybody doesn't feel the same.
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