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Anyone who makes an "exception" is a hypocrite IMO when it comes to abortion. If you truly believe it is "murder" then you would not support it in any circumstance.
That is why I stated in the previous post, I value the already born more than the unborn. The mother/family and medical providers are the best to make a decision about a forced or unwanted pregnancy, or one that has medical concerns that will affect the parents/family.
I know lots of people are also upset that families abort for disabilities, but disabilities take a huge time commitment and financial commitment on families. Not just the parents either as often, like with Down Syndrome, the other children in the family will be tasked with looking after/taking care of the disabled sibling. It is all and good if they want to but not all parents want to burden their other children with taking care of a disabled sibling later on in their lives. Our society also does not offer much assistance in caring financially and medically for disabled individuals.
As stated, there are always situations and circumstances that these pro-lifers do not consider. You need to take a step back on this issue and focus on the individuals who are already born and not just focus on potential life.
One could be a hypocrite yes.
Or......one could simply believe in not insisting on making their own personal views mandatory for everyone via legislation.....
Although this is an admittedly difficult concept for some people to wrap their brain around.
Or......one could simply believe in not insisting on making their own personal views mandatory for everyone via legislation.....
Although this is an admittedly difficult concept for some people to wrap their brain around.
You can't legislate good behavior, common sense, and ethics. THAT is something good parenting takes care of, the majority of the time. They've done a bang up job dismantling the middle class, and decimating the black family structure through such meddling.
Legislators keep trying to make government the nanny who knows better, while exempting themselves from the very laws and values (or lack of) they foist on us.
EXP: If they (congress) were forced to be on ACA, ACA would have never passed... making them the very definition of hypocritical.
We do, however, condone "pulling the plug" on people in comas. People will often describe such a decision in ways such as "He wouldn't want to live as a vegetable."
That's how I see following Richard Dawkins' advice of aborting fetuses with Down syndrome. If the abortion is done in early enough stages of pregnancy, (signs of Downe syndrome can sometimes be found in the first trimester) I don't see it as much different from just giving the child a replacement body without Down syndrome, assuming the parent has another child later. We could make the same arguments about poverty (and putting the child up for adoption isn't much of an improvement in many cases) and other genetic disorders too.
The type of abortion I definitely think we need to discourage is abortion as regular birth control...but I don't think most people engage in that anyway.
Our pro-life owner absolutely slammed his BIL saying that they were murderers for taking mom off life support saying that they were murderers and going to hell. That was 3ish years ago.
This winter pro-life owner and wife took her mother off life support.
I find the zealous pro-lifers are really rather hypocritical when the decision stares them in the face.
Unfortunately, many pro-lifers are too close-minded and self-centered to realize that their opinion doesn't mean anything. They do not possess the ability to think beyond themselves and consider that other people might disagree with them and feel differently about issues.
Earth to pro-lifers: Nobody cares what YOU think. But some folks just can't understand that not everything will cater to their opinions, whether they're religious beliefs or just personal opinions.
For example: I think Trump is an idiot. He has zero political experience, has no business being president, and should immediately step down. But that won't happen because nobody cares what I think. I understand that.
But some folks believe that abortion should be illegal, outside of very specific circumstances. Some (not all) of these people can't fathom that not everybody agrees with them. Some of them believe that because their religious beliefs are against abortion, that it should be the law of the land for all people. That is simply not the case.
This is true for everything and the facts are, the ones with the most votes get their way, whether others agree or not.
Or......one could simply believe in not insisting on making their own personal views mandatory for everyone via legislation.....
Although this is an admittedly difficult concept for some people to wrap their brain around.
We do this with many things. Seat belts, smoking, nearly all if not every law is based upon this idea. Someone has a personal view and gets enough people to agree with them.
I am beginning to believe the issue at the core of the "Pro-Life" movement is abstinence, not abortion. The hard-core pro-lifers are also against birth control, support abstinence-only sex-ed, and will shame any girl who gets pregnant, even if they keep the baby, because they dared to defy the rules of the fundamentalists and have sex before marriage. They oppose free distribution of things such as condoms to help prevent unwanted pregnancies. Why else would they shame teenagers who get pregnant? They should be supportive of them for keeping the baby but instead they consider them "whores" because they had sex.
That's also why they also support laws making it harder to adopt children and oppose helping those who choose to have their babies. It's not about the children. It's about controlling women. They want to make sure life is as difficult as possible for young women who have sex out of wedlock.
Now I want to say I don't think this is the case for all pro-lifers. There are some pro-life arguments I actually am sympathetic to. However, it seems the most vocal conservative pro-lifers are really about promoting a society where women stay pure until marriage, as the Bible demands.
It's called self control and personal responsibility, you know, making smart choices.
I'm Neutral on abortion. I don't care one way or the other, but if you get one, you should pay for it. Not the tax payer.
I Never so much as had a scare of a possible kid... amazing what happens when you use the head on your shoulders...
The hell would you risk your future to bring a kid into the world for, when you don't have the means to even support yourself... I will never understand why anyone with 2 functioning brain cells would risk having a kid and throw away the next 18-26 years of their life away, when they haven't even began living...
That and with the Chit floating around out there these days... the juice isn't worth the squeeze... not at all.
Most people excuse poor choices, and bad behaviors. I don't. I always think ahead, 5 minutes, 5 hours, 5 days, 5 weeks, 5 months, 5 years, 5 decades.
Is 1 hr in bed worth 18 years or 26 if they go off to college of supporting another mouth to feed, butt to wipe, losing sleep during the middle of the night? I dont.
Is 1 hr in bed worth blisters drips rashes sores and death worth it? NOPE.
Its a Risk I'm not willing to take.
My idea of a better society-you don't breed what you can't feed, you don't have the means to support yourself you don't get to partake in activities leading to health risks or bringing a child into an environment you can't support emotionally, financially, independently.
No, not pawning the kid off to gram and gramps...
It isn't a puppy, where if you dont like it you can drop it off to the shelter.
I mean actually having the means to raise a productive and healthy kid on your own in a committed and thriving relationship. Until the throw away and hookup culture disappears we will continue to see bad behaviors go on excused.
I find it amusing that I had friends in highschool having kids, they've got nothing but headaches, baby daddy/baby momma drama... all because they didn't have their priorities right. Seems foolish to me to fight for custody, child support, and rely on living at home with mom and dad to raise the kid while you go on to "have a life" meaning drop your responsibilities to your child to go on and hangout party and carry on while gram and gramps feed, bathe, and change your mistake...
I would say to the guys... you had no problems putting 20 bucks in gas to go to her house, you couldn't put 15 in the tank and buy a 3 pack of rubbers for 5?
The girls I'd say, you drop 50 bucks on a dress to wind up at the foot of your bed, you couldn't get one for less and carry rubbers or get the pill?
Neither gender is free from shame.
I feel shaming isn't detrimental one bit, make someone feel like a fool for making pizz poor decisions, makes an example out of them so that others might curb their actions. To be accepting to it perpetuates it. Every once in a while an old acquaintance from highschool or college will make a snide remark on facebook about something I bought, something I went and did, something I have along the lines of "Oh must be nice to be able to have" "Must be nice to be able to do"
I respond with this is what happens when you use your head and common sense before trading your life, your buying power, credit, and free time for a romp in the bedroom.
How about instead of condoning, excusing, or rationalizing poor decisions, present the risks, and responsibility that comes with these actions. And instead of wanting the taxpayer to cover abortion or entitlement programs to cover your mistakes, or mom and dad to raise your kid for you, you make clear conscience common sense decisions that if I do this, that may be the end product.
Can use gun control for example, some folks feel a 22 caliber sporting rifle (which is what the common chambering of an AR in 5.56/.223 is) and 30 round magazines should be taken from me, and others who abide by common sense laws already on the books, and determine we don't need it.
I feel some folks should be temporarily sterilized until they have the means to raise a child in a happy, healthy, family environment. But that encroaches on their rights.
No different than encroaching on mine.
We do this with many things. Seat belts, smoking, nearly all if not every law is based upon this idea. Someone has a personal view and gets enough people to agree with them.
A simple NO.
These laws you're talking about are not opinions, they are based on statistics, facts and studies : how many deaths are avoided by putting on a seat belt, how does smoking impacts on health, at what point alcohol consumption highly impact deaths by driving, etc. And these are for the well being of society as a whole, yes.
Abortion rights are also based on facts : how many abortions occured when it was outlawed? Roughly the same numbers. How many women died from it? How to make the procedure safe for someone who will nevertheless do ANYTHING to not keep on with pregnancy (drinking massive amount of gin in near boiling water tub, falling voluntarily from stairs, being butchered from "nurses", etc - just giving examples of "recipes" for abortion when it was outlawed). Women STILL did it. Imagine the despair.
The only REASONNABLE policy to keep abortions at the minimum (which is EVERYONE's goal - anti abortionnist or pro choice) is easy : free contraceptive, exhaustive sex education. That's it.
But I also understand it would mean for some people to view sex (and most especially females having sex) differently. It would mean questionning patriarchy. If men could get pregnant, there wouldn't be so much debate about abortion.
That is not sexist, just true. There are many historical reasons for patriarchy and repressing women's sexuality, such as inheritance and being sure that your offsprings were lawfully yours (ie to be next in line for inheritance)
I fully understand it's hard to get rid of thousands of years of culture. Males and females need to work together on this.
Last edited by personne; 05-25-2017 at 12:29 PM..
Reason: spelling
These laws you're talking about are not opinions, they are based on statistics, facts and studies : how many deaths are avoided by putting on a seat belt, how does smoking impacts on health, at what point alcohol consumption highly impact deaths by driving, etc. And these are for the well being of society as a whole, yes.
Abortion rights are also based on facts : how many abortions occured when it was outlawed? Roughly the same numbers.
Not even close.
Quote:
How many women died from it?
After the discovery of penicillin not very many and there are still women who die from one.
Quote:
How to make the procedure safe for someone who will nevertheless do ANYTHING to not keep on with pregnancy (drinking gin in very hot water tub, falling voluntarily from stairs, being butchered from "nurses", etc)
The only REASONNABLE policy to keep abortions at the minimum (which is EVERYONE's goal - anti abortionnist or pro choice) is easy : free contraceptive, exhaustive sex education. That's it.
But I also understand it would mean for some people to view sex (and most especially females having sex) differently.
I support the widespread use of contraceptives and sex education as do most. A life ends in every abortion. Not the case if you do not wear a seat belt.
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not at all.
