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I didn't want to be drafted, so I joined the US Army when I was 19. This was in 1957. Would I do it again? Sure, I'm of the generation that believed we had a duty. As far as cassisus clay, he is a draft dodger.
Did Cassius Clay have the same rights as you in 1957?
I joined when the draft was still in place, serving runs in the family and we do not shirk our duty to the Nation, unlike some so-called "patriots".
Why does duty to nation only include killing someone in a war that accomplishes nothing besides making rich people richer? Is it not just as patriotic, if not more, to refuse to fight on moral and ethical grounds?
Since 1777, the militia were defined as all able bodied male citizens, between 17 and 45. They were obligated to train, fight, and die, on command. That is the reason why conscription is 100% constitutional.
Militia duty:
“AGE.... In the United States, at twenty-five, a man [citizen] may be elected a representative in congress;
at thirty, a senator; and
at thirty-five, he may be chosen president.
He is liable to serve in the militia from eighteen to forty- five inclusive, unless exempted for some particular reason.”
- - - From Bouvier’s Law dictionary, 1856 ed.
Title 10 USC Sec. 311. Militia: composition and classes
(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, CITIZENS of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.
Title 50 USC Sec. 453. Registration (Selective Service)
(a)...it shall be the duty of every male CITIZEN of the United States, and every other male person RESIDING in the United States, who, on the day or days fixed for the first or any subsequent registration, is between the ages of eighteen and twenty-six, to present himself for and submit to registration at such time or times and place or places, and in such manner, as shall be determined by proclamation of the President and by rules and regulations prescribed hereunder.
Art. 1, Sec. 8, USCON (1789)
Congress shall have power ... To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;
Articles of Confederation, VI. (1777)
...every State shall always keep up a well-regulated and disciplined militia, sufficiently armed and accoutered, and shall provide and constantly have ready for use, in public stores, a due number of field pieces and tents, and a proper quantity of arms, ammunition and camp equipage.
PENNSYLVANIA GENERAL ASSEMBLY
TITLE 51, PART II, CHAPTER 3
THE MILITIA
Sec. 301. Formation.
Enactment. Chapter 3 was added August 1, 1975, P.L.233, No.92, effective January 1, 1976.
§ 301. Formation.
(a) Pennsylvania militia.--The militia of this Commonwealth shall consist of:
(1) all ABLE-BODIED CITIZENS of the United States and all other able-bodied persons who have declared their intention to become citizens of the United States, residing within this Commonwealth, who are at least 17 years six months of age and, except as hereinafter provided, not more than 55 years of age;
(Note: PA militia obligation is longer than the Federal: 17-55 versus 17-45!)
“The great draft riot in New York City in July 1863 involved Irish immigrants who had been signed up as citizens to swell the vote of the city's Democratic political machine, not realizing it made them liable for the draft.”
...
[All male CITIZENS, are liable for militia duty - a surrender of one’s right to life and liberty! Citizenship was and is voluntary in the united States of America.]
. . .
“It may be laid down, as a primary position, and the basis of our system, that every citizen who enjoys the protection of a free government, owes not only a proportion of his property, but even of his personal services to the defence of it, and consequently that the Citizens of America (with a few legal and official exceptions) from 18 to 50 Years of Age should be borne on the Militia Rolls, provided with uniform Arms, and so far accustomed to the use of them, that the Total strength of the Country might be called forth at Short Notice on any very interesting Emergency.”
- - - George Washington; "Sentiments on a Peace Establishment" in a letter to Alexander Hamilton (2 May 1783); published in The Writings of George Washington (1938), edited by John C. Fitzpatrick, Vol. 26, p. 289.
[... Every citizen ... owes a portion of his property ... and services in defense ... in the militia ... from 18 to 50 years of age... ]
The republican form, instituted by the Declaration of Independence, requires all who seek to defend endowed rights to - “mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.”
-LIFE
-PROPERTY
-HONOR
Those who consent to be citizens should realize that they have accepted a burden in exchange for their political liberty to vote, and serve. It is not evil for the government to demand its subjects / citizens to serve and fund it.
Any ersatz citizen unwilling or unable to do that should not be tolerated amidst the ranks of the citizenry - gender, race, or religion notwithstanding.
Women who sought the 'right to vote' while not pledging their lives, property and honor in service, are disingenuous in their demands for "equality" - while ducking equal duties.
This sounds an awful lot like the social contract I and others talk about when it comes to healthcare, education etc. Odd that you'd use the argument to give one's life but deny the argument when it comes to helping fellow Americans.
Why wasn't it just? The government wouldn't handover a known fugitive in Osama Bin Ladin. What else should we do? We couldn't let 9/11 go in vein.
ISIS is partially our fault as well. I agree with that. The problem is as we wanted to pull troops, these issues continued to pop up.
Then you find him like we did in Pakistan. Occupying countries never works.
Should've left Hussein in power. These countries need to be ruled by a strongman government. They want democracy, let them fight for it themselves. We became occupiers year, after year, after year. It's no wonder radicalization took hold. How would you be growing up with Chinese or Russian soldiers patrolling your streets as a kid? US military policy in the Middle East was deeply flawed from the start.
Why wasn't it just? The government wouldn't handover a known fugitive in Osama Bin Ladin. What else should we do? We couldn't let 9/11 go in vein.
ISIS is partially our fault as well. I agree with that. The problem is as we wanted to pull troops, these issues continued to pop up.
The taliban offered up Bin Laden to stand trial but Bush refused as there is no money to be made in that. Bush rejects Taliban offer to hand Bin Laden over
The Taliban itself and Bin Laden himself both being backed by the US against the USSR, till we screwed them over. Hell, Rambo even went to go help them in Rambo 3, the movie is even dedicated to them.
ISIS only exists because we created them to keep the war going.
I joined the US Air Force voluntarily right out of high school. Hindsight 20/20, I'd do it again in a heartbeat.
As for President Trump, we know how he feels about being in the military. Five....FIVE deferments to avoid military service.
Or he could have gone and got a cushy job like Al Gore.
Quote:
According to Michael O'Hara, Gore's closest army buddy, "We never pulled guard duty in the field because we weren't part of those units. The only place we stood guard was back at Bien Hoa," the secure base where Gore lived.
I was there in 1968 and 69 and Bien Hoa what's nearly stateside with flush toilets and everything. I saw Bien Hoa twice and that was arriving in country and leaving country after my one year tour was up. If you had to be there it was the safest place to be in the entire country.
Looking back don't cut it.When I was a pup in 69 you freaking better have your draft card on you or it was jail.The only way to get that card was to register when you turned 18.It was no stupid game back then like our country is now.You can't compare then to today. We were the Sons of WW11 vets and admired our parents uncles etc . Today hell you can be a boy today and a female tomorrow or just be lazy and be gender fluid.The Country is crazy today.Lots of normal people left but we keep to ourselves.
Looking back is exactly the point. Looking back and examining your life and experiences to determine what you would do then, based on what you know now. This is a political and controversial subject based in a philosophic exercise.
To everyone else, I remind you all, this thread is not about what your did or did not do back then.
The question is... knowing what you know now about life, your life, your country, et al... Would you serve if called - based on what you know now.
See how you conveniently forgot our peace prize winning Prez, 2000 additional Americans dead, then he went into Libya, Syria, Yemen, then back in Iraq. Additional men women and children killed in 100s of cruise missile attacks. Most hypocritical peace prize winner ever
He got that peace prize primarily as an incentive to just show up for "work". Secondary for cultural moral booster. He received it shortly after taking office. He did most of that other stuff well after receiving it.
Looking back is exactly the point. Looking back and examining your life and experiences to determine what you would do then, based on what you know now. This is a political and controversial subject based in a philosophic exercise.
To everyone else, I remind you all, this thread is not about what your did or did not do back then.
The question is... knowing what you know now about life, your life, your country, et al... Would you serve if called - based on what you know now.
Yes
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Is it not just as patriotic, if not more, to refuse to fight on moral and ethical grounds?
. Additional men women and children killed in 100s of cruise missile attacks. Most hypocritical peace prize winner ever
