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The fact remains that most companies borrow money from the rich to operate. The fact also remains that without the rich people's money, we wouldn't have our current modern life - imagine a world where nobody is allowed to borrow money or charge interest.
Any Joe/Jane can go down to the office and open a business.
Wouldn't it be better if the rich weren't able to sit around doing nothing, living off the backs of everyone else via interest payments?
Wouldn't it be better if the rich weren't able to sit around doing nothing, living off the backs of everyone else via interest payments?
This is what I don't understand. THIS is the reason they deify the wealthy? For the occasional cases where a non-rich person needs to borrow money from a rich person?
As if Jose's Chicken Shack is going to a Wall Street Private Equity fund for capital...
Rich people, for the most part, are not in the habit of loaning out money. Some risk-takers get even richer that way, but most take the conservative route and just invest in long-term funds. You have to be really dumb or unlucky to lose money this way.
And when you get a bank loan, you aren't getting a "rich person's money". You're getting another working class striver's loan. Banks don't loan you money based on some rich dude's deposits; they make loans based on previous loans (to another chicken shack, to take an example), and the credit leads to future deposits, rather than the other way around.
Wouldn't it be better if the rich weren't able to sit around doing nothing, living off the backs of everyone else via interest payments?
I don't know how many rich people you know. Except for those who inherited their wealth, the vast majority of the rich people are workaholic and some borderline maniac.
Given 80% of millionaires are first generation and self-made, the answer to your question is very obvious - they do work and they work like a maniac.
Keep in mind that 90% of the rich lose their wealth by the 3rd generation. They don't and can't hold on to their wealth.
I had the opportunities working with multi-millionaires and billionaires. No way I can keep up with their pace. Even with their jets flying them around the world, I don't want to live their lifestyle of constant traveling for business.
I am rich. I am creating no jobs, except for a nanny.
I'm hoarding money, and certainly don't apologize for it, as I'm following all the rules.
But I'm blown away that people with far less assets than me think that I'm a "great producer of wealth" when the only person getting rich off me is my family. I don't even have a wealth manager; so there isn't some bean counter at Merrill Lynch making a bit more in bonus; it's all self-managed.
I'm even more blown away that the same people that think these "poor rich" are forced to "give to completely unproductive people" when they have their assets in untaxed funds. It's unbelievable.
Once you accumulate money, it is SO EASY to be comfortable forever. You could sit around all day and watch Jerry Springer, and you will still accumulate 10-15% annually. If you're already worth millions, obviously you're making millions without lifting a finger. Capital gains are taxed LOW and many funds escape ANY taxation. Yet people in the trailer park who don't have two nickels to their name, and who think Trump is just swell think we're wonderful people because we happen to have a fat investment account. Gee, thanks, I guess.
Why do Trump voters, the vast majority who are quite obviously not wealthy, not particularly educated, and not really understanding a damn thing about economics or wealth management, so convinced that wealthy people are these Godlike benevolent job creators while people like themselves are unworthy and evil? Is it self-hate? What the hell is going on? You've been conned, which should be quite obvious.
I never said all rich people. I said jobs are created when a business is successful and can expand. My point is that poor people can't create jobs because they don't have the means to hire anyone.
I'm not a Trump supporter either, and I don't see the rich as godlike and benevolent, although many are benevolent. I believe that if they earn the money honestly, nobody else has any right to take it from them. I fully support them avoiding theft...err, taxes as much as they possibly can. Same with anyone.
I don't romanticize the rich. I simply feel the need to fight the "evil rich" narrative largely based on Marxism and/or simple envy.
I don't know how many rich people you know. Except for those who inherited their wealth, the vast majority of the rich people are workaholic and some borderline maniac.
Ha! This is absolutely hilarious. You don't live around rich people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer
Given 80% of millionaires are first generation and self-made, the answer to your question is very obvious - they do work and they work like a maniac.
Millionaire = $1 million in total family assets. We aren't talking about these people.
And your stat is made-up; the U.S. doesn't track the proportion of families in terms of when the crossed the $1 million threshold. It would be meaningless over time anyways unless you adjusted for inflation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer
Keep in mind that 90% of the rich lose their wealth by the 3rd generation. They don't and can't hold on to their wealth.
This is another made-up stat; probably obtained where you got the fake 80% stat.
Unless you have 20 kids you aren't going to lose all your wealth in two generations unless all your kids are incredibly foolish.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer
I had the opportunities working with multi-millionaires and billionaires. No way I can keep up with their pace. Even with their jets flying them around the world, I don't want to live their lifestyle of constant traveling for business.
LOL; This sounds like something absurd; like from a James Bond film or something.
Typical wealthy aren't "flying around the world" all the time. There are very few wealthy that need to be traveling to all points of the globe for business purposes.
And they take private jets to make their lives easier; not because live sucks and there's no other option. Half the flights from Teterboro (near Manhattan) are chartered planes with rich families just going to Disney or Turks & Caicos or wherever; easier and less hassle than commercial travel.
Ha! This is absolutely hilarious. You don't live around rich people.
Millionaire = $1 million in total family assets. We aren't talking about these people.
And your stat is made-up; the U.S. doesn't track the proportion of families in terms of when the crossed the $1 million threshold. It would be meaningless over time anyways unless you adjusted for inflation.
This is another made-up stat; probably obtained where you got the fake 80% stat.
Unless you have 20 kids you aren't going to lose all your wealth in two generations unless all your kids are incredibly foolish.
LOL; This sounds like something absurd; like from a James Bond film or something.
Typical wealthy aren't "flying around the world" all the time. There are very few wealthy that need to be traveling to all points of the globe for business purposes.
And they take private jets to make their lives easier; not because live sucks and there's no other option. Half the flights from Teterboro (near Manhattan) are chartered planes with rich families just going to Disney or Turks & Caicos or wherever; easier and less hassle than commercial travel.
The ones I worked for did. They had global businesses that they must attend. They stay at their home may be a few weeks in a year. Most of the time, they travel - non-stop travel.
Of course, there are lucky ones, but most self-made millionaires and billionaires are workaholic. Steve Jobs, for example, worked every day till the midnight and go back to work again at 7AM.
Of course, their wives and kids live a fabulous life of the rich, which is why most lose the wealth by the 3rd generation.
Ha! This is absolutely hilarious. You don't live around rich people.
Millionaire = $1 million in total family assets. We aren't talking about these people.
And your stat is made-up; the U.S. doesn't track the proportion of families in terms of when the crossed the $1 million threshold. It would be meaningless over time anyways unless you adjusted for inflation.
This is another made-up stat; probably obtained where you got the fake 80% stat.
Unless you have 20 kids you aren't going to lose all your wealth in two generations unless all your kids are incredibly foolish.
LOL; This sounds like something absurd; like from a James Bond film or something.
Typical wealthy aren't "flying around the world" all the time. There are very few wealthy that need to be traveling to all points of the globe for business purposes.
And they take private jets to make their lives easier; not because live sucks and there's no other option. Half the flights from Teterboro (near Manhattan) are chartered planes with rich families just going to Disney or Turks & Caicos or wherever; easier and less hassle than commercial travel.
I never said all rich people. I said jobs are created when a business is successful and can expand. My point is that poor people can't create jobs because they don't have the means to hire anyone.
Someone literally worth 0 cannot hire anyone legally, obviously, but I think this thread has shown there are plenty of ways a poor person can create jobs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by T0103E
I'm not a Trump supporter either, and I don't see the rich as godlike and benevolent, although many are benevolent. I believe that if they earn the money honestly, nobody else has any right to take it from them. I fully support them avoiding theft...err, taxes as much as they possibly can. Same with anyone.
Of course there are good and benevolent wealthy. But being wealthy does not make you "smart" "good" or "benevolent". Usually it means you were really lucky, sometimes it means you were really smart and hard working, but even then you need some luck and incredible timing to really hit it big.
Quote:
Originally Posted by T0103E
I don't romanticize the rich. I simply feel the need to fight the "evil rich" narrative largely based on Marxism and/or simple envy.
There's a middle ground, of course. IMO this country has swung FAR to one extreme, and I am amazed that people with no assets are cheering this current administration's dismantling of health care and other public expenditures to benefit people like me. It's kind of amazing.
I will get richer off Trump, probably (unless he goes full-on stupid and totally sinks the economy) but it's incredible that the people that will get poorer are so gung-ho about cutting the wealth of the 99% to benefit the "poor" 1%, who already have basically the lowest capital gains taxes in the first world.
They even want to eliminate the inheritance tax! A couple can basically give $11 million to their kids before even a penny in taxes kicks in. I mean, poor kids. Trump wants a 0% tax on all assets beyond $11 million, so families could horde money forever, while Joe Sixpack is getting nickle-and-dimed on taxes all day.
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