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View Poll Results: Should football players and university professors be easy to fire for their views?
Football players and university professors can be fired for their views. 142 43.03%
Neither can be fired for their views 188 56.97%
Voters: 330. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-25-2017, 01:12 PM
 
10,920 posts, read 6,912,422 times
Reputation: 4942

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy64 View Post
He should assert his right to free speech.
He can do that - but I'm not sure I'd say "should". His speech can have immense ramifications. It's a big deal when the President weighs in on something - is that really how we want our Government to act??

It's rather difficult to separate Trump the man and Trump the President. When the President speaks out in this way, he needs to realize the effect he is having.

I believe Presidents should remain neutral on these kind of matters for this reason. For what it is worth, Trump isn't the first President to speaking on things he probably shouldn't be speaking on. But he sure does it very frequently - I don't think I'd ever question Trump's willingness to "assert his right to free speech." (LOL at the mere suggestion that he doesn't feel able to do so...).


I personally think Trump saying things like this is inappropriate (but maybe this is just me):
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...04261553950720

 
Old 09-25-2017, 01:12 PM
 
Location: E ND & NW MN
4,818 posts, read 11,004,690 times
Reputation: 3633
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
I've really got to be signing off, because I've wasted far more time here again this morning, and my patience is wearing thin. On the other hand, I appreciate what sometimes feels like an honest exchange in an effort to better get at our differences...

I can hardly imagine what difference it makes who is doing what during the national anthem. Some are looking at the ground trying to remember their plays. Some are looking up into the sky as if wishing they were somewhere else. Some are picking their nose in the stands, and some are acting like whack-offs with paint all over their face...

Who cares? We're all just waiting for the kick-off if it's the game you're interested in watching. The cheerleaders are pretty too, but really? Who cares?!?

You put a lot of emphasis on what you think is poor choice, but that's not the issue here. Obviously, when kaepernick first thought to take a knee, he had a lot more on his mind and in his heart than just how appropriate or appreciated his act would be to some who he knew would obviously not approve.

You/others, obviously believe these symbols of nationalism, representing our pride in being Americans should somehow be outside the realm of political discourse. Others like me are entirely proud to be American in general, not so proud about all things America, and no American is! You may not like I protest what I think is wrong in the way I do. Of course, but you should certainly understand and appreciate my right to do so, because that is one of the most fundamental important things that anthem, that flag, our country truly represents!

If we can't distinguish between these important aspects of what makes us Americans versus what makes for fascist nationalism, we diminish what I believe America represents. That's why I support these protesters even when what they do is not altogether appreciated or appropriate according to me or you.

"Police brutality and discrimination will not be solved by disrespecting the country which gives you freedom." I totally agree! Protesting is not "disrespecting the country" even if the protest involves burning the flag!

Not as far as I'm concerned and not as far as our constitution is concerned and not as far as our Supreme Court of the United States is concerned, so with all due respect to how and why you disagree or don't understand, I believe I've got an awfully good reason to feel more right and justified about my opinion about this than you can about yours.

Stand, sit or do whatever you want to do with your time at the game or off. That's your right because it IS a free country! For all other Americans too, whether you think them appropriate or not!

At least please, enough, with equating such acts as disrespecting the entire country and all it stands for. The NFL and for the most part all the players have done more than most forms of entertainment - you or me - to represent the country in a positive light. In many cases they represent America at the olympics! To disparage their want to communicate an important message, about injustice or wrong-doing in America, is a patriotic act! Not the other way around.
well said....

I personally stand but I think each person has a right to do as he/she wishes. I dont believe kneeling or sitting is disrespectful.... you can have a moment of silence and listen and respect this nation sitting down as standing up. To me looking at someone standing, kneeling, or sitting during the national anthem and equate that to how much he/she loves his country or whatever doesnt make sense to me.
 
Old 09-25-2017, 01:14 PM
 
10,920 posts, read 6,912,422 times
Reputation: 4942
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
I, like many other fans, care.

Like millions of others, I view being respectful during the anthem as being respectful to the veterans and first responders.

If you are protesting the anthem, who exactly are you protesting? Are you protesting teachers, truck drivers and nurses? Are you protesting freedom of speech? What are you protesting?

From my understanding, the key component that started this was the treatment of blacks by the police. That certainly seems to target first responders, many of which are veterans.

Sorry, but this "protest" is poorly conceived, doesn't send a clear message, appears to be mostly political now and is dividing our country further.

I have zero patience for these anthem protests.

Stay in the locker room or be respectful. Quit with this ill-conceived nonsense that is counterproductive.
You answered your own question...see the bold.

I mean, I understand that you disagree with it (which is totally your right, of course!). But it's been clear what the motivations of those that have taken part in this protest are.
 
Old 09-25-2017, 01:15 PM
 
9,742 posts, read 4,496,886 times
Reputation: 3981
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
I, like many other fans, care.

Like millions of others, I view being respectful during the anthem as being respectful to the veterans and first responders.

If you are protesting the anthem, who exactly are you protesting? Are you protesting teachers, truck drivers and nurses? Are you protesting freedom of speech? What are you protesting?

From my understanding, the key component that started this was the treatment of blacks by the police. That certainly seems to target first responders, many of which are veterans.

Sorry, but this "protest" is poorly conceived, doesn't send a clear message, appears to be mostly political now and is dividing our country further.

I have zero patience for these anthem protests.

Stay in the locker room or be respectful. Quit with this ill-conceived nonsense that is counterproductive.

Care how much? Like I said if it is millions as you say then the this Sunday Foxboro stadium should be a ghost town.
 
Old 09-25-2017, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,850 posts, read 26,285,621 times
Reputation: 34059
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
I, like many other fans, care.
Like millions of others, I view being respectful during the anthem as being respectful to the veterans and first responders.
If you are protesting the anthem, who exactly are you protesting? Are you protesting teachers, truck drivers and nurses? Are you protesting freedom of speech? What are you protesting?
From my understanding, the key component that started this was the treatment of blacks by the police. That certainly seems to target first responders, many of which are veterans.
Sorry, but this "protest" is poorly conceived, doesn't send a clear message, appears to be mostly political now and is dividing our country further.
I have zero patience for these anthem protests.
Stay in the locker room or be respectful. Quit with this ill-conceived nonsense that is counterproductive.
Your unwillingness to admit what they are protesting is part of the reason they are protesting
 
Old 09-25-2017, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,853 posts, read 17,368,921 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyMac18 View Post
You answered your own question...see the bold.

I mean, I understand that you disagree with it (which is totally your right, of course!). But it's been clear what the motivations of those that have taken part in this protest are.
It isn't clear.

I have no idea what they are protesting or talking about.

Not that I care.

Liberals have a horrible reputation for not being able to concisely protest something even when they have a point.
 
Old 09-25-2017, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Pikesville, MD
2,983 posts, read 3,093,054 times
Reputation: 4552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kracer View Post
Laughing at the offended ball players who thought Trump called them SOBs. which he did not. Trump said he would like to hear the owners call them an SOB and then fire them. Guess what? most of America has called the wayward protesters far worse names. Trump has an uncanny ability to reflect what most of America is thinking.


What is funny is that they went thru their entire ball careers and not one coach ever called them a SOB or worse????


Oh the agony!


Eff the flag and in return be called an SOB is hardly a fair exchange for the privleged world they get to play in compliments of those who 'defended the flag'..another way of saying they volunteered to join the service.


Millionaire ballplayers are upset that they are the 1 percent they have such a problem with and horrror of horror compliments of capitalism, they so abhor.


No sympathy, no NFL here.

Another one who really doesn't get the reasons for advocacy by people of position.


People with influence often use their position to advocate for people who have no influence. Celebrities, politicians (including First Ladies) and athletes. Many do this on the job.


In the case of professional athletes, for you it's OK for them to advocate for autistic children, even though they are not children themselves. It's OK to advocate for breast cancer awareness even though they are not women themselves. It's OK to advocate for any other cause EXCEPT this one. Which means you SUPPORT police brutality and racism.
 
Old 09-25-2017, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Florida
76,971 posts, read 47,640,534 times
Reputation: 14806
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Who cares? We're all just waiting for the kick-off if it's the game you're interested in watching. The cheerleaders are pretty too, but really? Who cares?!?
I stand during the anthem, but it is none of my business what other people do, because no one nominated me to police over what is politically correct. The PC cops here are "outraged" at how other people behave, and that says more about them than anyone else.

It is ironic the these same PC cops pretend to me some kind of libertarians when it sounds good to be libertarian. This whining about the anthem shows they are pretty much the opposite of it.

Pull your PC heads out of your PC butts and let the rest of us enjoy the games.
 
Old 09-25-2017, 01:22 PM
 
34,619 posts, read 21,621,539 times
Reputation: 22232
Quote:
Originally Posted by vacoder View Post
Care how much? Like I said if it is millions as you say then the this Sunday Foxboro stadium should be a ghost town.
So all football fans are at the games?

Funny, I thought they televised them as well.
 
Old 09-25-2017, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,853 posts, read 17,368,921 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I stand during the anthem, but it is none of my business what other people do, because no one nominated me to police over what is politically correct. The PC cops here are "outraged" at how other people behave, and that says more about them than anyone else.

It is ironic the these same PC cops pretend to me some kind of libertarians when it sounds good to be libertarian. This whining about the anthem shows they are pretty much the opposite of it.

Pull your PC heads out of your PC butts and let the rest of us enjoy the games.
As a libertarian it is very disappointing to see many conservatives who will lean libertarian at times go back to their statist roots on this one.

Liberals worship the State and agree with the stance the players are taking (whatever that is) so this one is an easy stance for them.
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