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this is not just about insurance...btw insurance is not care
singlepayer??? you (if you pay taxes), cant afford it
and if you are meaning medicare for all...that's NOT singlepayer
many if not most conservatives/republicans would be all for singlepayer....if, if two questions could be answered
1. can you guarantee the level/quality of care...because we have seen the "Dept of Health horror clinics", and the all too many times we are reminded of the lack of quality from the VA
2. and the second, but probably most important question....How will we pay for it???
TRUE singplepayer...100% paid by the federal government, no copays, no deductibles.. to cover 323 million people will cost over 5.75-6.25 trillion for the first year, with each and every years the cost increasing with inflation
non-singlepayer "medicare for all", which is a 75/25 government insurance, which you not only have to buy supplemental insurance (or just pay the remainder out of pocket), but you also have copays will cost about 3.2 trillion
our current budget is about 3.5 trillion but our current revenue is about 3 trillion...about a half a trillion deficit.....of that 3.5 trillion dollar budget the federal government budgets about 1.2 trillion for mandatory health care (medicare,medicaid, va)
so where are you going to get the additional 2 to 5 trillion dollars to pay for some kind of singlepayer or medicare for all????
taxing the rich to death....well that will cover the first year...then what, when there are no more rich to tax.....
we have 323 million people here in the USA, yet less than 1/4 are tax payers
2. we (the taxpayer) cant afford any type of singlepayer or even medicare for all
singlepayer is NOT sustainable at any level when you are talking about 320 million patients, and less than 70 million taxpayers
they (the government) cant lower much..the best the government could do is lower some prescription medicines
how are you going to control the cost of medical equipment(mri or x-ray machines, etc)??????most xray machine are made in Denmark
how are you going to control the cost of the rising electric bills the doctors/hospitals are facing????
how are you going to control the rising property tax/rent/mortgage that doctors face?????
how are you going to control the cost of supplies(gauze, plaster, silk, rubber, polystyrene( a oil product)?????especially some supplies that aren't even American
how are you going to control the cost of people salaries???? a maximum wage???
how they are going to control the employment costs for Doctors, nurses, technicians, hospital food operators, hospital linen cleaning service, custodial services, medical transcribers........are you going to 'nationalize' every profession that is even remotely connected to medicine????
how are they going to control malpractice INSURANCE COSTS?????
things are expensive
for example the average hospital uses a lot of electricity...about 500,000 a month...that's over 6 million dollars in electric costs yearly.....you are not going to cut that piece of overhead
when you go to the local doctor and pay him/her 100..its not 100 dollars going into his pocket...there are lots of other COSTS
they have lots of overhead costs:
rent/lease/mortgage
property taxes
electric costs
equipment costs(and many pieces of equipment are not even made here)
cleaning costs
supply costs
personnel costs
etc
singlepayer will not control these costs
medicine (like anyother SERVICE) costs money,,(,money that our government doesn't have)
want to know A BIG REASON why its lower in those other countries.??? salaries.....a nurse in France(actually most of europe) makes about 1500-1800 a month(in us dollars)..that's 18-22,000 a year.....meanwhile according to payscale.com the average Rn makes 40-68,000 in the usa
FranceRegistered Nurse (RN) Salary (France) .....average 22,000 euro (about 25,000 dollars us)
USARegistered Nurse (RN), Emergency Room Salary ....average 63,000 dollars
Professional Nurse Average Salary Income - International Comparison
so what is it that singlepayer supporters 'think' or 'believe' we will be able to negotiate ??? medicines maybe....salaries not likely...other supply costs not likely.....property taxes and overhead...not a chance
UHC (medicare for all) which is not a singlplayer , or actual singlepayer would cost between 3.5 TRILLION and 6.5 trillion ANNUALLY.....and will INCREASE everyyear...the taxpayers cant afford that
America is a great country. Great enough to match every other country in the world that has concluded that the health and quality of life of its citizens is more important than whiny bean-counters and fat-cat insurance execs. Great enough to address your absurd references to overhead, clean sheets and X-ray machines. Come ON.
Government control of costs -- as in Medicare, which has been going strong since what? 1965? -- answers most of your queries. No more $500 aspirins, maybe! A national VAT of 1% provides the funding needed -- as instituted decades ago in most developed countries.
Now I have a question for you: are you REALLY arguing for the status quo that existed before the ACA? Where insurance companies flat tell sick people to just go die, pay the execs millions, maintain the largest cash reserves of any private class of corporations, and have the government ready and willing to cover their inefficiency with subsidies?
Tell me you're serious. Admit that the current system is unsupportable and at current levels will soon consume nearly all of our GDP. And all to keep insurance companies profitable?
America is a great country. Great enough to match every other country in the world that has concluded that the health and quality of life of its citizens is more important than whiny bean-counters and fat-cat insurance execs. Great enough to address your absurd references to overhead, clean sheets and X-ray machines. Come ON.
Government control of costs -- as in Medicare, which has been going strong since what? 1965? -- answers most of your queries. No more $500 aspirins, maybe! A national VAT of 1% provides the funding needed -- as instituted decades ago in most developed countries.
Now I have a question for you: are you REALLY arguing for the status quo that existed before the ACA? Where insurance companies flat tell sick people to just go die, pay the execs millions, maintain the largest cash reserves of any private class of corporations, and have the government ready and willing to cover their inefficiency with subsidies?
Tell me you're serious. Admit that the current system is unsupportable and at current levels will soon consume nearly all of our GDP. And all to keep insurance companies profitable?
WHY, exactly?
You forget the drug companies, some of the biggest offenders of all who slink around in the shadows making BILLIONS of U.S. citizens and pennies off of everyone else.
If y'all only knew how much money companies like Walgreens make playing with drug prices, just like WalMart and every other drug retailer that OWNS a drug distributor.
I bet nobody here is aware of the pricing loophole that Hospital corporations enjoy. If they own pharmacies and get them a certain certification that basically says all their employees fill their prescriptions there they then get "cost" pricing. That means that they pay actual manufacturer cost for all the drugs they buy and then sell them/bill insurance companies/government at retail.
What a great gig right?
Remember that Eppi-pen that was the latest outrage? Want to know what the above described hospital corporation pharmacy pays for it? .04-.06 CENTS as that's the actual cost. Of course you know how much it's billed at to you and me right?
So, just think how much corporations like Kaiser make every day on all of their pharmacy sales...
When everybody's rates go up, you can lay the blame squarely at the feet of the greed of the insurance executives and Wall Street.
When nobody can afford insurance any more we'll be ready for single payer.
What's going to happen to all of the businesses though that have to comply? I know grocery stores have been finding reasons to fire full time workers while hiring new workers at part time so they can get out of it.
But the fine will stay and the IRS will make trillions. That was the plan from the get go.
They aren't getting anything of significance because the "tax" is not that high and there is no teeth for collecting the "tax". They can only collect it from tax refund if you do not pay. Your refund can be $0 if you adjust the withholding which is something you should be doing anyway.
About 6.5 million Americans paid an average penalty of $470 for not having health insurance in 2015—20 percent fewer than the year before, according to data released Tuesday by the IRS.
This is why Ocare is failing. Everybody that supports garnishing wages, seizing assets and jail time for those that don;lt buy insurance stand up and say aye. That's the stark reality here, this legislation is never going to work unless you bring participation rates up to a very high percentage. It was doomed from the start.
They aren't getting anything of significance because the "tax" is not that high and there is no teeth for collecting the "tax". They can only collect it from tax refund if you do not pay. Your refund can be $0 if you adjust the withholding which is something you should be doing anyway.
This is why Ocare is failing. Everybody that supports garnishing wages, seizing assets and jail time for those that don;lt buy insurance stand up and say aye. That's the stark reality here, this legislation is never going to work unless you bring participation rates up to a very high percentage. It was doomed from the start.
If I'm not mistaken, Trump suspended all fines not to mention if one looks carefully at the forms there is a box for "other" under reason for not signing up. That reason can be almost anything and they don't check what is written in.
You can also ask for a waiver using the reason "due to cost hike I can no longer afford it" and it will go through.
If I'm not mistaken, Trump suspended all fines not to mention if one looks carefully at the forms there is a box for "other" under reason for not signing up. That reason can be almost anything and they don't check what is written in.
You can also ask for a waiver using the reason "due to cost hike I can no longer afford it" and it will go through.
I believe you are correct about Trump but it's not like he rescinded something that was working to begin with.
this is not just about insurance...btw insurance is not care
singlepayer??? you (if you pay taxes), cant afford it
and if you are meaning medicare for all...that's NOT singlepayer
many if not most conservatives/republicans would be all for singlepayer....if, if two questions could be answered
1. can you guarantee the level/quality of care...because we have seen the "Dept of Health horror clinics", and the all too many times we are reminded of the lack of quality from the VA
2. and the second, but probably most important question....How will we pay for it???
TRUE singplepayer...100% paid by the federal government, no copays, no deductibles.. to cover 323 million people will cost over 5.75-6.25 trillion for the first year, with each and every years the cost increasing with inflation
non-singlepayer "medicare for all", which is a 75/25 government insurance, which you not only have to buy supplemental insurance (or just pay the remainder out of pocket), but you also have copays will cost about 3.2 trillion
our current budget is about 3.5 trillion but our current revenue is about 3 trillion...about a half a trillion deficit.....of that 3.5 trillion dollar budget the federal government budgets about 1.2 trillion for mandatory health care (medicare,medicaid, va)
so where are you going to get the additional 2 to 5 trillion dollars to pay for some kind of singlepayer or medicare for all????
taxing the rich to death....well that will cover the first year...then what, when there are no more rich to tax.....
we have 323 million people here in the USA, yet less than 1/4 are tax payers
2. we (the taxpayer) cant afford any type of singlepayer or even medicare for all
singlepayer is NOT sustainable at any level when you are talking about 320 million patients, and less than 70 million taxpayers
they (the government) cant lower much..the best the government could do is lower some prescription medicines
how are you going to control the cost of medical equipment(mri or x-ray machines, etc)??????most xray machine are made in Denmark
how are you going to control the cost of the rising electric bills the doctors/hospitals are facing????
how are you going to control the rising property tax/rent/mortgage that doctors face?????
how are you going to control the cost of supplies(gauze, plaster, silk, rubber, polystyrene( a oil product)?????especially some supplies that aren't even American
how are you going to control the cost of people salaries???? a maximum wage???
how they are going to control the employment costs for Doctors, nurses, technicians, hospital food operators, hospital linen cleaning service, custodial services, medical transcribers........are you going to 'nationalize' every profession that is even remotely connected to medicine????
how are they going to control malpractice INSURANCE COSTS?????
things are expensive
for example the average hospital uses a lot of electricity...about 500,000 a month...that's over 6 million dollars in electric costs yearly.....you are not going to cut that piece of overhead
when you go to the local doctor and pay him/her 100..its not 100 dollars going into his pocket...there are lots of other COSTS
they have lots of overhead costs:
rent/lease/mortgage
property taxes
electric costs
equipment costs(and many pieces of equipment are not even made here)
cleaning costs
supply costs
personnel costs
etc
singlepayer will not control these costs
medicine (like anyother SERVICE) costs money,,(,money that our government doesn't have)
want to know A BIG REASON why its lower in those other countries.??? salaries.....a nurse in France(actually most of europe) makes about 1500-1800 a month(in us dollars)..that's 18-22,000 a year.....meanwhile according to payscale.com the average Rn makes 40-68,000 in the usa
FranceRegistered Nurse (RN) Salary (France) .....average 22,000 euro (about 25,000 dollars us)
USARegistered Nurse (RN), Emergency Room Salary ....average 63,000 dollars
Professional Nurse Average Salary Income - International Comparison
so what is it that singlepayer supporters 'think' or 'believe' we will be able to negotiate ??? medicines maybe....salaries not likely...other supply costs not likely.....property taxes and overhead...not a chance
UHC (medicare for all) which is not a singlplayer , or actual singlepayer would cost between 3.5 TRILLION and 6.5 trillion ANNUALLY.....and will INCREASE everyyear...the taxpayers cant afford that
America is a great country. Great enough to match every other country in the world that has concluded that the health and quality of life of its citizens is more important than whiny bean-counters and fat-cat insurance execs. Great enough to address your absurd references to overhead, clean sheets and X-ray machines. Come ON.
Government control of costs -- as in Medicare, which has been going strong since what? 1965? -- answers most of your queries. No more $500 aspirins, maybe! A national VAT of 1% provides the funding needed -- as instituted decades ago in most developed countries.
Now I have a question for you: are you REALLY arguing for the status quo that existed before the ACA? Where insurance companies flat tell sick people to just go die, pay the execs millions, maintain the largest cash reserves of any private class of corporations, and have the government ready and willing to cover their inefficiency with subsidies?
Tell me you're serious. Admit that the current system is unsupportable and at current levels will soon consume nearly all of our GDP. And all to keep insurance companies profitable?
WHY, exactly?
Why does it make any difference to you?
You admitted in a previous post that you have Medicare.
If others who aren't old enough for Medicare don't want Medicare for all, what business is that of yours?
Are you worried that the mechanics of the current healthcare system for those under 65 will eventually effect current Medicare recipients?
If I'm not mistaken, Trump suspended all fines not to mention if one looks carefully at the forms there is a box for "other" under reason for not signing up. That reason can be almost anything and they don't check what is written in.
You can also ask for a waiver using the reason "due to cost hike I can no longer afford it" and it will go through.
I may be wrong, but my understanding of what Trump's EO did was that it prohibited the IRS from rejecting tax returns where the filer leaves the box/box area that you mention blank. My understanding is that the policy before that EO was to reject returns with that area left blank/'no proof'.
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That's the stark reality here, this legislation is never going to work unless you bring participation rates up to a very high percentage. It was doomed from the start.
