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Those statues celebrate people that fought to keep slavery going. It's that simple. Not "what we went through". Should we erect statues of Hitler and Saddam to show "what we went through". We have books and the internet now. Time to grow up. And quit with the tantrum about little slavery statues. If you want to fund them going a private location, fine. But they should not be on taxpayer funded grounds. And again, these are statues for people that fought to keep slavery going. Simple. And they clearly stated what the war about. Stop choosing to be ignorant about the issue. It's not cute. It never was.
Those statues are there as historical markers to indicate a very turbulent time in American history. Not in celebration of an effort to keep slavery going. There is a fundamental difference there. I doubt you'll find anyone who supports keeping the statues who would say differently.
Hitler and Saddam cannot be compared to the Confederacy. Those are not the same thing and most people with anything between their ears know this. Furthermore, we are discussing a civil war BETWEEN our own citizens, not overthrowing dictators in other countries. Again, not the same thing.
If they shouldn't be on taxpayer grounds, then neither should any other statues. After all, other statues represent other times in American history. If these go, then the rest go with them while we are attempting to ignore history.
I'm not ignorant about the issue. I may be more well-informed than you are since you cannot see the difference. I hope no one thinks it's cute. It shouldn't be. This is a serious matter in which groups of the population want to remove historical monuments because they suddenly find them "offensive", whereas they have been around for decades or longer with not one word about them until recently.
I've asked the question before and as suspected, everyone ignored it. If the statues are so offensive, WHY didn't anyone try to have them removed during Obama's tenure? Surely they were just as offensive during his tenure and every President's tenure before him. Why wait until Trump takes office to decide to remove them? I have my opinions, but I'd like to hear yours.
Those statues are there as historical markers to indicate a very turbulent time in American history. Not in celebration of an effort to keep slavery going. There is a fundamental difference there. I doubt you'll find anyone who supports keeping the statues who would say differently.
Hitler and Saddam cannot be compared to the Confederacy. Those are not the same thing and most people with anything between their ears know this. Furthermore, we are discussing a civil war BETWEEN our own citizens, not overthrowing dictators in other countries. Again, not the same thing.
If they shouldn't be on taxpayer grounds, then neither should any other statues. After all, other statues represent other times in American history. If these go, then the rest go with them while we are attempting to ignore history.
I'm not ignorant about the issue. I may be more well-informed than you are since you cannot see the difference. I hope no one thinks it's cute. It shouldn't be. This is a serious matter in which groups of the population want to remove historical monuments because they suddenly find them "offensive", whereas they have been around for decades or longer with not one word about them until recently.
I've asked the question before and as suspected, everyone ignored it. If the statues are so offensive, WHY didn't anyone try to have them removed during Obama's tenure? Surely they were just as offensive during his tenure and every President's tenure before him. Why wait until Trump takes office to decide to remove them? I have my opinions, but I'd like to hear yours.
1. The statues were placed to send a very specific message about supremacy and place, not as 'historical markers'. If you doubt this, then answer this simple question...Why are there virtually no monuments to James Longstreet? Longstreet was one of the most important Confederate generals in the Civil War and was Lee's right hand man. He is often hailed as one of the greatest generals of the Civil War. Yet, outside of a small statue on the Gettysburg battlefield, there are almost no monuments to him. Why is that? When you resolve that question, then you will see why those monuments were really put up.
2. The controversy over these monuments has existed almost since they were put up. In most cases they are local, county or state matters and not really up to the federal government or people outside of that area to choose what to do with them. If you are informed on the issue, then you know of the various controversy's around flags and monuments during Obama's tenure. It has nothing to do with who the president is though, it generally has to do with shifting local demographics and attitudes. I do think that Trump's rhetoric has led people to locals stepping up pressure to take down the monuments.
The north acted a lot like the left is acting today. It wants to force everyone to live as they dictate. When it was over both sides were face down bleeding. If your ignorant and think that the North won like a first round TKO you know nothing John Snow. Thousands died on both sides in a war that the country has still not recovered from. So keep going leftists. Start another one.
We're not interested in fighting another civil war. Are you interested in bringing back slavery?
Yes. And to further the point, slavery was made unlawful in the South while people in the North were still allowed to have slaves. Civil war had something to do with tax on trade and cotton. Husband explained it to me but I guess I wasn't interested enough to listen. Civil war was about the federal government getting too strong and ignoring the rights of states. I had to listen to that because it showed up on the history test following our teacher telling us about it.
We still have the same problem because the South lost.
The basic reason for the laws being passed that started the Civil War is that the South was so far ahead economically thus making the North jealous.
Oh sweet Jesus on a pogo stick!
What your husband and your history teacher told you is jaw-dropping in its mendacity.
If slavery had never existed, would there have been a Civil War?
I think there would have been for sure. Washington DC was trying to assert more and more control over the states. I think many of the people in the south were never that crazy about being a part of a country with the north.
1. The statues were placed to send a very specific message about supremacy and place, not as 'historical markers'. If you doubt this, then answer this simple question...Why are there virtually no monuments to James Longstreet? Longstreet was one of the most important Confederate generals in the Civil War and was Lee's right hand man. He is often hailed as one of the greatest generals of the Civil War. Yet, outside of a small statue on the Gettysburg battlefield, there are almost no monuments to him. Why is that? When you resolve that question, then you will see why those monuments were really put up.
Actually, I visited Gettysburg last month. There is more than one Longstreet statue. Furthermore, in Russellville, TN there is a Longstreet museum. He has not been forgotten. Most statues were placed at the scene of a battle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT
2. The controversy over these monuments has existed almost since they were put up. In most cases they are local, county or state matters and not really up to the federal government or people outside of that area to choose what to do with them. If you are informed on the issue, then you know of the various controversy's around flags and monuments during Obama's tenure. It has nothing to do with who the president is though, it generally has to do with shifting local demographics and attitudes. I do think that Trump's rhetoric has led people to locals stepping up pressure to take down the monuments.
What has Trump said that has locals stepping up pressure? Can you be specific?
The controversy has never been much of a controversy (outside of taking down the flag) until the BLM, Antifa, etc... became a thing. Then suddenly the focus shifted to these monuments and it became a larger outcry. There is an agenda to push and folks are trying very hard to make it happen.
Well, it was about slavery because the Confederate leaders of the day explicitly said that it was about slavery.
More significantly, in their statements it wasn't the physical need for slaver labor that they brought to their defense.
It was the cultural desire to maintain a caste system deliberately reminiscent of that of ancient Greece (which is why you find so many old mansions in Grecian style) that they used as their defense of slavery. Even if slaves had not been required for mass labor, the south would have insisted on maintaining a slave-based culture.
The wealthy slave master wanted it to be about slavery, and many of them found deferments from the government, so they did not have to join in the actual fighting.
However, for the average Billy Joe Jim Bob, who didn't own slaves, why would they want to fight and die to protect some other person's right to own slaves? so those who joined early on must have had some justification to risk their lives.
As the war progressed, and the North was burning towns, salting farmer's fields, and looting and rape were taking place. Then I can see why some Southerners were joining the fight, to protect their homes, farms, families and towns.
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