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View Poll Results: Do wealthy people owe the 99% something? Should they?
Yes 78 35.62%
No 141 64.38%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 219. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-22-2017, 10:14 AM
 
Location: One of the 13 original colonies.
10,190 posts, read 7,971,472 times
Reputation: 8114

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No! Why would you even think that they owe anything to anyone?
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Old 09-22-2017, 10:17 AM
 
Location: OH->FL->NJ
17,021 posts, read 12,630,975 times
Reputation: 8932
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
I've posted it. Will gladly do so, again:

Two liberal think tanks analyzed US local, state, and federal tax rates and came up with the following, to their surprise...

Here's the average effective TOTAL (local, state, and federal) tax rate, by income group.

Data sources for chart: Tax Policy Center and Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy

Article in which chart appears: No, The Rich Do Not Pay 'All The Taxes' - Business Insider

Data sources for chart: Tax Policy Center and Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy...

Federal Tax Rates (includes individual and corporate income tax, payroll taxes for Social Security and Medicare, and the estate tax):
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/sites...F/T13-0035.pdf

Local and State Tax Rates (includes state income tax, real estate tax, private property tax, and sales tax):
Executive Summary | The Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP)

...Perhaps the chart, above, explains what's holding back our economic growth. Those with the most to invest in the expansion of the US economy are having that money siphoned off by Fed Gov.
Thanks and cannot rep you ATM. Believe it or not we agree on a few things. I fit in no standard political classification. Kudos for reasonably neutral sourcing. FWIW Im not for large income tax increases on the wealthy. I am for differentiating between:
True venture capitalists. Creators
neutral capitalists. IE betting on the price of soy beans neither harms nor helps
Capitalists who practice bust outs. IE bankrupting companies while putting them in debt.

(I would pay for universal care with a payroll tax (not income tax) which would likely be similar in cost to private health insurance costs paid for by employers currently and there would be an equal employee portion along with copays and deductibles. Cost control never seems to be talked about like monopolies, back billing, etc.)

What I find most interesting on the graph is how the state tax gets smaller on the highest groups.
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Old 09-22-2017, 10:28 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,311 posts, read 45,033,285 times
Reputation: 13785
Quote:
Originally Posted by ottomobeale View Post
Thanks and cannot rep you ATM. Believe it or not we agree on a few things. I fit in no standard political classification. Kudos for reasonably neutral sourcing. FWIW Im not for large income tax increases on the wealthy. I am for differentiating between:
True venture capitalists. Creators
neutral capitalists. IE betting on the price of soy beans neither harms nor helps
Capitalists who practice bust outs. IE bankrupting companies while putting them in debt.

(I would pay for universal care with a payroll tax (not income tax) which would likely be similar in cost to private health insurance costs paid for by employers currently and there would be an equal employee portion along with copays and deductibles. Cost control never seems to be talked about like monopolies, back billing, etc.)
That won't work, as that makes tax-filing workers foot the bill for everyone else. And we have an historically low Labor Force Participation Rate. Universal health care really needs to be funded with a 25% VAT tax that everyone pays (as is so in European countries). That way it captures tax revenue from even those who earn their income illicitly and don't report to or file taxes with the IRS. Examples include drug dealers, arms traffickers, smugglers of controlled goods (e.g., ivory tusks, endangered animal pelts, foreign nations' antiquities), money launderers, illegal betting operations, con artists, etc.

Oh, and those hedge fund managers so many like to complain about? If they want to live the high life... CHA CHING! That's a 25% VAT tax surcharge on your high-flying lifestyle, Hedgie.

Quote:
What I find most interesting on the graph is how the state tax gets smaller on the highest groups.
State and local. That's largely an artifact of real estate tax. Real estate values (and therefore, real estate tax) have much a much lower variance rate than income.
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Old 09-22-2017, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Chicago area
18,760 posts, read 11,824,496 times
Reputation: 64167
Quote:
Originally Posted by natalie469 View Post
If I was one of the 1%, I would hope to be like Bill and Melinda Gates. I admire them greatly. They could be selfish and self absorbed, yet they give so much to the world. Why not help others when you have billions of dollars. You can't possibly spend that much in your lifetime. So why not do some good for others.

I was going to mention them as well as Warren Buffet. Do they owe anybody anything for being successful? I vote no. Some people are generous, some stingy. Look at Trump and his left over inauguration money that he said he would donate to charity. Trump raised 107 million dollars. There's tens of millions of dollars left over. Legally he can keep every penny and it looks like he has. He can use campaign funds to pay for his legal defense and take money from the RNC as well. He can sell his merchandise to his base and use that money too. Does he need that money? Probably not. Does he owe poor people a bone? No. It's his money. He can hoard it or be generous. I think he's a hoarder. Some people always want more and they don't care who starves in their wake. You have to respect it, it's just who he is. No Bill and Melinda Gates. That's for sure.
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Old 09-22-2017, 10:38 AM
 
15,357 posts, read 12,676,065 times
Reputation: 7571
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
So, why do Dems want them here? Why are Dems fighting against ending DACA and deporting DACAs, increasing illegal alien deportations, and building the wall?
why hasn't the GOP pushed these through since they control all 3 branches?

Obama deported more folks than any other president yet folks claim he loved illegals.
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Old 09-22-2017, 10:39 AM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,605,183 times
Reputation: 8094
Quote:
Originally Posted by animalcrazy View Post
I was going to mention them as well as Warren Buffet. Do they owe anybody anything for being successful? I vote no. Some people are generous, some stingy. Look at Trump and his left over inauguration money that he said he would donate to charity. Trump raised 107 million dollars. There's tens of millions of dollars left over. Legally he can keep every penny and it looks like he has. He can use campaign funds to pay for his legal defense and take money from the RNC as well. He can sell his merchandise to his base and use that money too. Does he need that money? Probably not. Does he owe poor people a bone? No. It's his money. He can hoard it or be generous. I think he's a hoarder. Some people always want more and they don't care who starves in their wake. You have to respect it, it's just who he is. No Bill and Melinda Gates. That's for sure.
Bill and Melinda are just as greedy. They use their charity foundation as a tax shelter.
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Old 09-22-2017, 10:40 AM
 
Location: new yawk zoo
8,704 posts, read 11,111,299 times
Reputation: 6415
the very rich tends to donate money or set up foundations to minimize taxes. Give money to your pet projects > giving to uncle sam.


I'll admit I donate $$ to causes I believe in. I am aware is a nice benefit to pay less to the government on my W2
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Old 09-22-2017, 10:41 AM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,641 posts, read 17,385,611 times
Reputation: 37411
Quote:
Do wealthy people owe the 99% something? Should they?
No. There is plenty for all.

Just because I have money doesn't mean I took it away from you.
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Old 09-22-2017, 10:41 AM
 
15,357 posts, read 12,676,065 times
Reputation: 7571
Quote:
Originally Posted by animalcrazy View Post
I was going to mention them as well as Warren Buffet. Do they owe anybody anything for being successful? I vote no. Some people are generous, some stingy. Look at Trump and his left over inauguration money that he said he would donate to charity. Trump raised 107 million dollars. There's tens of millions of dollars left over. Legally he can keep every penny and it looks like he has. He can use campaign funds to pay for his legal defense and take money from the RNC as well. He can sell his merchandise to his base and use that money too. Does he need that money? Probably not. Does he owe poor people a bone? No. It's his money. He can hoard it or be generous. I think he's a hoarder. Some people always want more and they don't care who starves in their wake. You have to respect it, it's just who he is. No Bill and Melinda Gates. That's for sure.
why do we have to respect a hoarder?
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Old 09-22-2017, 10:42 AM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,605,183 times
Reputation: 8094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
It isn't about "owe".

It's about more equitable income.

The fatcats are fatter than ever and don't require more lard.

Workers are where they were 40 years ago.

That's what needs to change.

Who are you to determine who needs what? Do I have a say in what you need?
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