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OP, I cannot tell you how many people over the years that I've had conversations with either in real life or on forums etc. where they complain about living in a high cost of living area with a brutal commute and how they have no free time and no spare money to do anything since their starter home was 700k.
You mention that the Midwest is in general cheaper and then out comes the stereotypes with things like "Well I'm a liberal would I be able to make any friends?", or that they don't go to church = no friends blah blah blah which is so silly I won't even bother to discuss further.
Then I typically hear how they would miss the "night life" or the "restaurants" which they can almost never afford or have time to enjoy...along with missing "the ocean" which is 2 hours drive away for them and they go maybe twice a year.
In fairness, I used to live in Chicago and also hear people from less urban areas ask how dangerous it is. It isn't but again, misinformation and myth runs rampant.
I 100% support people to make their own personal choices I just feel that people that have always lived in a certain area often just don't know what they're talking about with regards to other parts of the country.
But hey, that's their call, me personally I enjoy not having my paycheck devoured by housing costs and enjoyed the TWO EXTRA HOURS each day not spent commuting. I've lived in towns\metros of 5,000 and then 200k or so then 10mil or so and now about 1mil+ so that's my diversity of experience but I realize many others may have other factors that they value more than me and that doesn't make my or their opinion on the matter any more right or wrong.
Well said, all around. On this website and elsewhere I constantly read narrow, stereo-typed views from armchair know-it-alls.
So much is so different than what people imagine. Go see, folks, and talk to people with an open-mind. You'll find that MUCH in this world is different than what you have imagined.
They want to be able to have access to the things they want when they want it, even if they hardly use them. They don't need a car, can get an uber whenever needed, can get any kind of food delivered to them, etc. Even if they are home online most of the time, there are all the other conveniences. They often live in small sparsely furnished spaces, renting, so no maintenance. They just need to go to work and go home to their computer, no other responsibilities.
Well, no, there is still more opportunity for the non-college educated. But, yes, life will be worse for the minimum wage worker in SF compared to Wichita. I agree that SD has better weather than SF. I do disagree with you on the diversity. There would be more of a mono-culture and hive mentality in Wichita. Your assertion is the opposite of diversity. Yes, way too many homeless. It is a shame that we have so many that live on the streets in the richest country in the world. It is devastating.
Trades are unique. It depends on where you live, how much the pay is compared to the cost of living. Take a plumber, for example, they would make more in Gary, IN or Flint, MI. https://www.valuepenguin.com/2013/07...nd-pipefitters
IT workers for example of course do well in San Jose, but they do almost as well in Houston. COL factors, and salary. It seems to be a mixed bag, so you do have choices. https://www.forbes.com/sites/joelkot.../#31e5ddf77edb
FWIW you are the first person to take this in a political direction.
Oh please, this thread doesn't live in a vacuum. There have been dozens of other rural vs city threads and for the most part they all veer into the area.
So someone lives in a rural area...why even comment on it at all? Why even start a thread?
Hey guess what, my house is brown and white. All people who live in tan houses are morons. You know why? I HATE tan! Does that make any more sense?
I think it is very interesting how people pay 10 times the price for a home in San Francisco than Wichita when a vast majority of people's lives is consuming nearly universally available media and sleeping.
When ever I am in a big city, I wonder where the excitement is as a vast majority of people are staring at a device most of the time.
Interesting the premium pay to be on the internet in Culver City or Newport Beach as opposed to Wichita or Grand Forks.
Have you actually been to Wichita? It is a rundown, depressing low income with very few quality jobs available. It is the kind of place where $10 an hour is considered a good wage.
Last edited by CaseyB; 10-20-2017 at 04:28 PM..
Reason: language
Have you actually been to Wichita? It is a rundown, depressing low income with very few quality jobs available. It is the kind of place where $10 an hour is considered a good wage.
FYI, you can get a house for 40,000 in Wichita, and your mortgage would be about 140 bucks a month so, ten bucks isn't bad.
FYI, you can get a house for 40,000 in Wichita, and your mortgage would be about 140 bucks a month so, ten bucks isn't bad.
It is actually terrible regardless of the costs of living for the reasons I mentioned earlier. I mean I suppose if you never want to leave Wichita, it is fine. But you will have nearly no transferability and a greatly diminished capacity for wealth accumulation at those rates, even if they let you live there for free. And when you finally move, you will get a whopping 40,000 dollars or less for your house, where as the person in the high COL area and the relatively higher pay and mortgage will potentially get 500,000+.
For accumulating wealth via a job (capping out around upper middle class to lowest tier "rich" - need some form of passive income to get truly wealthy):
Best - High pay scales, Low COL (Basically fantasy land)
Second best - High pay scales, High COL (Professional/White collar job in a population center, generally)
Third best - Mid to low pay scales, Mid to Low COL (Most rural areas)
Worst - Mid to low pay scales, High COL (This would be the McDonalds worker living in San Francisco)
Last edited by zzzSnorlax; 10-20-2017 at 11:36 AM..
I don’t think the OP has an adequate grasp on what “average” means. I suspect that that 12-hour average (to the extent it’s even valid) is bumped up considerably by people who unemployed, underemployed, retired, disabled, “disabled,” or otherwise in possession of 12 extra hours per day in which to consume fake news, listicles, and other clickbait. Maybe techies in the Bay Area also consume that much digital junk food, but I suspect that those pulling down ginormous pay, bonuses, and stock options are prolly pretty busy creating wealth in some fashion, hence gaining the geld that pays for their lodgings.
FYI, you can get a house for 40,000 in Wichita, and your mortgage would be about 140 bucks a month so, ten bucks isn't bad.
No sane person would live in a 40k neighborhood in Wichita. They are in dangerous slum areas or industrial areas with meat packing or chemical factories next door.
Well, at least in my case, the best jobs in my field tend to be located in or around population centers. Sure it costs 30% more to live there, but the jobs pay 30% more as well and there are more of them. As long as you are in a field that is competitively paid, it is always better to make more money in a high cost of living area than it is to make less money in a low cost of living area, because COL can be largely offset by things such as online shopping where you get prices that are competing against all areas.
So, for professional well compensated jobs, in a high COL area, you pay more for housing taxes etc... but you can pay roughly the same as low COL areas for much of the rest of the products you need, leading to a net increase. Not only that, you can build up retirement savings/investments based on the higher pay and then eventually take that larger amount to a low COL area when you are ready to call it quits.
If you plan on working at McDonalds then yes, it is a pretty terrible idea to try to move to some crazy high COL city...
In math terms you are better off making 150,000 and paying 70% of it on COL needs in a high COL area than you are making 100,000 and paying 70% of it in a low COL area, the raw amount left over is higher (45000 vs 30000), the eventual home resale value is higher, leaving you with more leverage and wealth in the long term especially if later in life you retire to a lower COL area.
The most important factor is actually the ratio of COL vs increases in pay scales. Looking at COL alone is only getting half the picture.
This is the part so many people miss. Even with the ridiculous taxes and expenses here on Long Island, I've done the math..I still take home more here than I would elsewhere with the commiserate salary reductions.
The main issue here is if you lose your job, you are in much worse shape much more quickly than you would be where property taxes are $2K instead of $10K. Also, if you work as say a retail manager, the COL adjustment is not nearly enough to cover the difference.
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