"Gun control" advocates push for "just a little more restriction" and then just a little more after that. Really? MERGED (retire, troops)

[Haakon]

Originally Posted by Troyfan

Banning mass murderers' weapon of choice is reasonable. What is the opposite view? Give them to child killers? Train murderers how to kill the most people?

No it isn't reasonable, and that is why no one believes your "reasonable gun control" lies.

You think banning 130 year old technology will accomplish anything? Yes 130 years that's how long semi automatic firearms with detachable magazines have been around. Instead of focusing on the rifle just maybe you could focus on WHY some people are doing this today.

What kind of fool thinks the opposite of banning something is arming and training child killers? You voted for Hillary, didn't you.

[Weichert]

Originally Posted by BentBow

America has let it's guard down on the false sense of security government has fed you and me.
Since before this nation was fought for, savages roamed among us. Government does not want us to fight back.

Time to teach our kids at an early age, all about guns. Educate them about guns as much as you do to spell the word firearm and add and multiply, to know how many rounds you got left before a reload.
The more gun education in the minds of the young, the more comfortable we will be with seeing a sidearm holstered on the hip by the public. It is going to happen. A gun in everyone's hand returning fire, deters the cowards.

Ah, what could go wrong?

So you got 2 people down at the school cafeteria, they get in an argument. One is the good guy, the other the bad one. Bad guy pulls out pistol, starts shooting, good guy hides behind a table, gets his pistol and returns fire. Third person shows up and not knowing whose good or bad, starts shooting at both who then returns his fire. Now 3 more rush in to help and so you now have 6 people shooting at each other. A dozen more (all armed) join in and now a regular fire fight is in progress with 18 shooting it out. Of course some will be casualties but more and more enter, join in and they also start shooting.

That what you have in mind?

[NY_refugee87]

I respectfully disagree.

Originally Posted by wallflash

As a gun owner who has some disdain for the semi auto rifle and its aficionados due to the mindset of so many I have met in person and talked with on the net, I am to the point I have to agree with the concept of arming schools.

Out of curiosity, not spite, What exactly is the mindset of afficianados that you've engaged with? I'm asking genuinely and sincerely. Not looking to insult or engage in fueling a divide.

Originally Posted by wallflash

But this is a sad admission of the road the NRA and the gun cultists have led us down more than anything else.

This is not what the NRA promotes nor endorses...
Nowhere in the history of the NRA has the NRA nor Its members and leaders promoted or endorsed these heinous attacks... nowhere.

You have every right to show disdain or dislike for the NRA. You can not equivalate the NRA, its leaders, its members to a nefarious actor.

Originally Posted by wallflash

I needed nothing but a rifle and a shotgun for most of my life. Shotgun was more than adequate for dealing with potential intruders ( and has never been needed ) , and afforded comfort while driving on the road. But when the nutters started shooting up places on a regular basis,I got a handgun to have if I am somewhere and something like this starts to occur. So I armed up to prevent myself not from ordinary criminals, but from the gun nutters.

I think you have a typo, I believe at the end you meant, so I am armed to Protect myself not only from ordinary criminals but from blood lusting deranged.

Originally Posted by wallflash

Now,thanks to the NRA ,we live in a world in which we will soon shop for bulletproof accessories for our children, and have armed men roaming the halls of our schools, with the inevitable accidental shooting of a kid pulling something from his backpack that an ex military school guard mistakes for a gun.

That is hyperbole. Nor would that be a reality. Where has anyone promoted such an idea? You don't shoot first and ask later. Even police are trained only to use lethal force IF a legitimate threat exists. Meaning orders were not obeyed. No such event would exist and you know it.

Again. It is not the NRA responsible for this. That is a false equivalency.

Originally Posted by wallflash

And the gun cultists pretend they cant see the connection between the ready availability of weapons capable of large ammo capacity and rapid fire and nutters choosing them to slaughter as many people as possible.

As I have stated before. Focusing on the implement does not solve it nor reduce it. You would merely promote these scumbags to fire from defilade with single shot bolt action rifles or if reduction in magazine capacity were to occur, promote more accurate fire. Remember... active shootings last 10-15 minutes.

Focusing on the incentive and motive, now you're stepping in the right direction.

Originally Posted by wallflash

We keep being told there is no way to fix this except for arming the schools, and yet as far as I know we would be the ONLY civilized nation that needs to do this, save Israel dealing with terrorists that attack them almost daily.

Peru... that's besides the point.
Pictures speak a thousand words.



We protect cash in bank trucks with an armed deterrence.
I was a kid. We had a lockdown drill following 9/11 with threats of school attacks/shootings.

We had an assembly following our first drill. And at the end was open commentary. I asked the schools administration this question.

"Do you honestly believe if there is an active shooter present, that locking the doors and telling us to huddle on the floor face down will solve this? Your doors have glass windows in them! All the shooter has to do is break that glass reach in unlock the door and he's got fish in a barrel! If you're genuinely concerned for my safety you'd allow the faculty of the school who wants to participate to, their 2nd Amendment rights to keep and bear arms and train to serve as a deterrence to Protect us. I watched the clock on the wall. 45 minutes. It took 45 minutes for boots to be heard stomping in the hallway with K9s shouting clear. 45 minutes. For a PLANNED drill. What if this were not a drill nor planned?"
The gasp in that auditorium damn near sucked all the air out.

It must have sunk in because 2 NYS Troopers were on site. Student resource officers were what they were called.

Originally Posted by wallflash

Specifically because we are the only civilized nation that chooses to make getting the weapons most used in these attacks readily available no matter how many kids get killed. We just cant seem to get a handle on what every other non two bit country in the world can, for some reason.

No. We can't seem to focus on the big picture. Too many people are short sighted and believe solely in going after the implement and not the incentives that provide those with nefarious motives a way to commit such atrocities. The model in place perpetuates it.

Originally Posted by wallflash

Having to arm our schools is a sign of the sick society the NRA and the gun cultists have turned us into. But it does appear to be the best method, this far down the drain as we are.

No. Acknowledging a threat exists and developing proactive solutions is not sick. Equate these scumbags to cancer/tumors.
Do you say removing the tumor and proactive treatments are far more effective at preventing death than doing nothing? Of course.

The laws in place that were signed to perpetuate these occurrences are what plays a major role/proven faulty.
The lack of action on those trusted to investigate threats also plays a significant role.
Focusing on implements, inanimate objects incapable of marching down to the school and committing these vile atrocities, is short sighted.

Bombings-we blame bombers.
DWI fatalities, we blame the drunk. Not the vehicle not the alcohol.
Why can't we acknowledge the shooter is to blame? Honest question.

Why is it the firearms fault?
It's an inanimate object incapable of thinking or acting.
Why is it the NRAs fault? I do expect some honesty here, as the NRA is not to blame here. They don't promote endorse nor support these heinous crimes.
Why equate the NRA to that of the Taliban or ISIS?

You show me one instance that the NRA stood up for these scumbags, promoted these heinous tragedies, endorsed these events to occur, and you will have someone in support of dismantling the NRA.

Can you show me an NRA board member, or NRA member that has openly supported these events? Who stood proud of these things?
Can you show a publication where a leader or member of the NRA stood up condoned and endorsed these events?

Again. Not being a wiseass or a punk. You and I have a common problem to solve. You claim it's the NRA.
I simply ask for proof that supports your opinion.

[NY_refugee87]

Originally Posted by Raddo

I don't know why you keep harping on the NRA. It is the sick society part of your statement that is the cause. The NRA or gun enthusiasts has not caused society to become sick.

Robert Noyce. Ever heard that name? Most haven't. He is the guy that founded Fairchild and Intel, without whom we would not be using computers or smart phones. To me, he is an example of a hero, the type of person we should be celebrating and remembering. Instead, no one knows who he is. But a lunatic shoots up a place, kills a bunch of people, then becomes front-page news. He's famous, almost like a hero.

I think if we started celebrating and focusing on the true heroes of our country, while suppressing the names of mass murderers and confining their acts to the corner of page 14 of the newspaper, maybe some of that sickness will start to heal.

Yes. I wholeheartedly agree with this.
Do not release the details of the scumbag and his actions. Just report it as an active shooting incident took place and it is being investigated. One of the shooters professed to looking at raising the count previously set by another individual. That's sickening. I believe it was the Sandy Hook shooter.

[NY_refugee87]

Originally Posted by Ringo1

No, I don't think it is. Eventually the young people are going to take guns away from the old people. They have lived under the fear of being gunned down in their schools for decades. And they appear to be quite tired of it.

Your right to play with an AR 15 doesn't supersede their right to live.

Better buy more now! Every time there is a school shooting - the NRA and the gun manufactorers make more money.

Profiting on the blood of dead american children.

I wonder if threatening the rights of all to legally purchase has anything to do with that?

It does. That's simple logic and common sense. Propose a ban. You will endorse panic purchases because what's here today may not be there tomorrow due to legislation and those looking to extinguish/curtail the rights of all for an anti gun agenda.

[NY_refugee87]

Originally Posted by Weichert

Ah, what could go wrong?

So you got 2 people down at the school cafeteria, they get in an argument. One is the good guy, the other the bad one. Bad guy pulls out pistol, starts shooting, good guy hides behind a table, gets his pistol and returns fire. Third person shows up and not knowing whose good or bad, starts shooting at both who then returns his fire. Now 3 more rush in to help and so you now have 6 people shooting at each other. A dozen more (all armed) join in and now a regular fire fight is in progress with 18 shooting it out. Of course some will be casualties but more and more enter, join in and they also start shooting.

That what you have in mind?

I don't know what reality you live in... I can argue and disagree with someone. I carry.
There are laws against brandishing without just cause. That's a felony menacing charge. I value my rights and freedom. I'm also not a short fused conclusion jumping emotionally compelled individual. I can't be insulted. I won't allow you the power over me to offend or rustle my jimmies. I won't allow you that satisfaction of getting under my skin. Nor engage in stupidity and life altering and perception changing consequences like you are suggesting.

I don't know where you have come up with such an example... if movies and tv shows... then time to start changing the entertainment industry that promotes stupidity and irresponsibility...

[Weichert]

Originally Posted by NY_refugee87

I wonder if threatening the rights of all to legally purchase has anything to do with that?

It does. That's simple logic and common sense. Propose a ban. You will endorse panic purchases because what's here today may not be there tomorrow due to legislation and those looking to extinguish/curtail the rights of all for an anti gun agenda.

Hmmm, based on your (almost hysterical) postings limiting access to weapons looks to be the best choice.

[Ex New Yorker]

Want to hear something really scary?

Howard Daniel Pfeiffer a former Senior Advisor to U.S. President Barack Obama. Just mentioned the other day that we should forget about gun control and instead work to appoint justices that will nullify the Constitution. May God save our Constitutional Republic.

[Raddo]

Originally Posted by Weichert

Ah, what could go wrong?

So you got 2 people down at the school cafeteria, they get in an argument. One is the good guy, the other the bad one. Bad guy pulls out pistol, starts shooting, good guy hides behind a table, gets his pistol and returns fire. Third person shows up and not knowing whose good or bad, starts shooting at both who then returns his fire. Now 3 more rush in to help and so you now have 6 people shooting at each other. A dozen more (all armed) join in and now a regular fire fight is in progress with 18 shooting it out. Of course some will be casualties but more and more enter, join in and they also start shooting.

That what you have in mind?

How many times have you seen such a scenario occur, other than in fictional movies or television?

How many times have you seen a mass shooting occur in a school, church, mall, theater, or other gun free zone?

Reality, people. Reality works better than irrational fears every single time.

[Weichert]

Originally Posted by Raddo

How many times have you seen such a scenario occur, other than in fictional movies or television?

How many times have you seen a mass shooting occur in a school, church, mall, theater, or other gun free zone?

Reality, people. Reality works better than irrational fears every single time.

Actually, a few (excluding use of fire arms). Saw some real bar fights in the Army. That truly got out of hand.

In reality, if every student in a high school had loaded weapons, watch out. You can bet on real problems, including shootings.