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I believe them. They may own Fudd guns and a revolver...
That's where my disdain for the NRA is. The old guard within has proven on multiple occasions they don't stand for the 2nd Amendment entirely.
Come looking for their bolt actions, lever actions, pump and breech actions, and revolvers and then you might see them get up the courage to argue against gun control...
There's alot of gun owners who don't believe in the 2nd Amendment.
What's good for me is not for thee. And you should only be allowed to my subjective interpretation of what constitutes as a right to keep and bear arms, and what arms you make keep and where you may bear them...
I don't. It's like being a Jew in support of the Nazi's. I just don't get it?
By the way I love your posts. You're an articulate spokesman for the 2nd Amendment. However I don't understand your disdain for the NRA? It's an organization that is composed of people from all walks of life. Not all members are "Fudds". No matter what organization you belong to there's always going to be people within that organization that you will not agree with.
They've been in this game for a longtime. They are thee number one organization the media loves to hate. They have the money, the wherewithal and the legal expertise to get things done. No NRA, no 2nd Amendment it really is that simple. Just think of how powerful they would be if every real gun owner in the United States belonged to one organization with one goal in mind. Unfortunately it's only composed of about 5 million members. Yet they are still the most formidable gun rights organization in the United States.
Obviously we're never going to win all of our battles as our enemies are formidable as well. Not everyone votes on gun issues alone. In states such as New York where Democrats rule the state with an iron fist. It's pretty much a lost cause. That's just one of the reasons I got the hell outta' there. Although it wasn't just about guns, I'm against that party and everything that they supposedly stand for. I would never, ever vote for a Democrat no matter who they have running for any political office. *They are the enemies of our Constitutional Republic and wish to turn the United States into a socialist third world aristocracy of which they will have absolute power and control over every aspect of our lives.
*Howard Daniel Pfeiffer a former Senior Advisor to U.S. President Barack Obama. Just mentioned the other day that we should forget about gun control and instead work to appoint justices that will nullify the Constitution. **Ruth Bader Ginsburg went to a foreign nation and advised them not to model their constitution after ours.
That's the only rational reason they have for abolishing the 2nd Amendment and Constitutional Law. The only rational reason for allowing for the importation of tens of millions of illegal invaders from third world nations onto our shores. As they depend on a permanent and burgeoning underclass to maintain and grow their power structure. Guns are just a small part of that equation.
United we will stand, divided we will surely fall.
Quote:
**Ginsburg to Egyptians: I wouldn't use U.S. Constitution as a ... http://www.foxnews.com/.../06/ginsbu...-as-model.html
Feb 05, 2012 · ... revolutionaries not use the U.S. Constitution as a model for ... Ruth Bader Ginsburg visited ... Ginsburg's comments are not foreign to her ...
Sorry, but your inability to grasp that some people can own guns, hunt, and carry for protection without being a gun cultist is irrelevant to actual fact. I own 3 guns , as that's all I need. Well , 4 if you count the old shotgun of my granddads with the firing pin removed. 1 shotgun, 1 lever action deer rifle , and a handgun I acquired simply because of the proliferation of these nutters. I am by no means an aficionado that oohs and ahhs over how cool guns are. They are tools , for hunting and for protection , that's all.
But you are correct in that I disdain the adolescent gun cultist mentality that can be manipulated by gun manufacturers convincing them they can become more manly by buying their cool AR15 clone.
Sorry, but I still don't believe you no matter how many times you repeat it. With supposed self righteous gun owners like you we can kiss the 2nd Amendment goodbye. If they can ban one they can ban them all. They'll just change the terminology for any class of firearm they see fit. Grandpa's old .38 revolver was yesterday's "Saturday Night Special". Shotguns were once labeled as "riot guns". Today it's so called "assault rifles". Anything to instill fear amongst the general public.
Last edited by Ex New Yorker; 02-17-2018 at 11:11 AM..
All the emotional knee jerk responses I get, are completely unconstitutional.
Fact based
Emotion based
The fact is, my rights are not subject to your will.
Your emotions think they are.
We could pass a law against shooting other people.
We could pass laws against bringing guns into schools.
We could pass laws against rape. Against burglary. Against child abuse.
Get a clue people-criminals don't obey laws. That is why they are criminals.
You know what I find strange? The whole #metoo movement and anti-sexual assault/harassment movement vs the gun control movement. The first one-blames the criminal for their acts. They denounce and condemn those that rape or harrass. As anyone with a brain would. They don't blame the jeans they wear. The underwear for not containing a penis. They don't blame video cameras when Hollywood producers commit vile acts. Because...that would be stupid.
Yet when a scumbag shoots up a school-the shooter is ignored. Instead they blame the gun, rather than the person that commits the act.
The so-called "gun control" advocates have spent the last several decades proving (inadvertently) that their half measures do not work. "Assault weapons" bans, waiting periods, "gun free" zones, background checks, and all the rest rarely reduce the crime rate, and often result in an increase instead. And yet they keep coming back and saying we need "just a little more" of their "reasonable restrictions".
When they point to countries whose results they like, they invariably point to places like England, Japan, Australia, etc. - countries that have almost completely banned guns from their subjects.
Take the hint.
In fact, complete bans of all guns are the only things that have ever reduced "gun crimes". And they must be accompanied by ruthless confiscation. Advocates who say they want "just some reasonable regulations", know by now they won't work. The only thing they could now be intending, is an eventual complete ban on all guns. While pretending they will do only just a little, to fool you into going along with "just a little". And then next year, just a little more.
Their total gun bans must be accompanied by SWAT teams going door to door to every house and apartment in America, taking people's guns whether they want to give them up or not. They know that many people will object to giving up their guns voluntarily... but a gun ban won't work unless everybody turns in their guns.
Advocates who say they want a few "reasonable regulations", are either astonishingly ignorant of the results of their own policies, or are lying to you.
Yet none of that is fact based when considering the country just north of you.
Fewer of all types of shooting events as compared with population per-capita figures.
No outright/complete bans.
Guns are legal.
When increased controls were placed; no SWAT squads searching them out house by house to confiscate.
The one time firearms were confiscated by RCMP from abandoned houses during a flood in Alberta the federal government ORDERED their return to their owners with an admonishment against the RCMP.
The only significant difference is proliferation and viewing the 2nd as inviolate and indicative of ALL your other rights and freedoms.
No one would seriously contemplate confiscation in the U.S. as being either practical or possible but rather impossible and a declaration of war from the government upon it's people.
Utter mayhem would ensue followed by complete anarchy. Only fools would seek this.
It had once been common for high schools to have an open campus. Now high schools are locking down their campus in ways that erode the everyday freedom of students, faculty, and parents. Some schools have a policy that classroom doors must remain locked at all times during the door just in case an emergency happens. Security cameras, security cameras before you can get in the building, not allowed to exit doors to get other buildings on campus that you once used, etc...
All freedoms have limits - the 1st Amendment has limits...the 2nd Amendment has limits, I can't own a nuke...we need to tighten the 2nd Amendment further IMHO.
If you look at most larger business campuses they are locked down tight so kids are going to probably experience a locked down campus sooner than later as sad as that appears.
It had once been common for high schools to have an open campus. Now high schools are locking down their campus in ways that erode the everyday freedom of students, faculty, and parents. Some schools have a policy that classroom doors must remain locked at all times during the door just in case an emergency happens. Security cameras, security cameras before you can get in the building, not allowed to exit doors to get other buildings on campus that you once used, etc...
All freedoms have limits - the 1st Amendment has limits...the 2nd Amendment has limits, I can't own a nuke...we need to tighten the 2nd Amendment further IMHO.
If the current younger death toll is not enough to precipitate meaningful discussions of every facet of this situation, including the 2nd Amendment, then I have no idea what it will take to stimulate or motivate such discussions.
How can I show you a law that addresses gun proliferation and violence when you basically start off your criteria as "it can't stop me from owning anything I want?" You know you're setting up a non-starter out of the gate, because you fundamentally don't believe in any laws regulating weapons.
So what's the point of having this fake debate?
rubbish, the reason you cant come up with a law that keeps firearms out of the hands of those that shouldnt own guns, but still passes constitutional muster is because refuse to understand that our rights are codified in the bill of rights, and that there were good reasons why they were put in the constitution. you also dont really care about the rights of others either, which is typical of gun grabbers. you see a gun you dont like and immediately want to ban it, or at least restrict it. but eventually you really do want to ban anyone in the US from owning guns, because a few bad apples use them in a criminal manner.
as noted below, we spend time going after those tht break the laws, except when they break gun laws, and then you go after the gun. you fail to understand however that a gun is an inanimate object that requires a human agency to operate. my guns have never killed anything but some paper targets.
what we really need in this country is people control, not gun control.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake
We could pass a law against shooting other people.
We could pass laws against bringing guns into schools.
We could pass laws against rape. Against burglary. Against child abuse.
Get a clue people-criminals don't obey laws. That is why they are criminals.
You know what I find strange? The whole #metoo movement and anti-sexual assault/harassment movement vs the gun control movement. The first one-blames the criminal for their acts. They denounce and condemn those that rape or harrass. As anyone with a brain would. They don't blame the jeans they wear. The underwear for not containing a penis. They don't blame video cameras when Hollywood producers commit vile acts. Because...that would be stupid.
Yet when a scumbag shoots up a school-the shooter is ignored. Instead they blame the gun, rather than the person that commits the act.
I'm of a slightly different mindset on this one. These cretins or misfits who perform these terrible deeds will simply see armoured backpacks as a challenge to their "X-Box/PlayStation" abilities and if using something like an AR, equip it with laser or quick acquisition optics to take head shots instead OR they can simply purchase this stuff instead:https://www.ammunitiontogo.com/index...556-penetrator
Your average teen would know a piece of armour no bigger than 1 sq/ft will not stop a determined shooter nor will it stop the hotter rounds available for purchase across the counter.
Parents clutching at any straw offered is understandable but I am doubtful it will serve to empower anybody; especially teens who talk to each other and know better.
The short term solution is the hardening of schools with metal detector entrances and sealed times of operation. Once citizens realize the type of society they are building with their 'Number One' country being reduced to students needing to be cloistered behind locked doors, needing permission and escort to leave for a DR's appointment, thusly creating an environment in direct contradiction to anything ballyhood as Free and Brave, they may review their priorities.
I doubt it happening in a hurry though.
So far none of the perpetrators have had problems entering any school. As far as 'hardening' how far can you take that? Are you talking bullet proof grass for entrances and ground level floors? Even if you went that far; they still have the buses. Logistically I just think it is impossible or too costly. We have not been successful with all the precautions that were currently taken.
It isn't only that; but our system let us down even when they had advance notice like in this last case. When you leave your safety in the hands of others; you depend on them to be there when you need them. That has not happened with the majority of these shootings.
There are many very capable young men and women in high school. What they lack is training. I am not saying that it is a perfect solution; but it is the only solution - they are there when attacks, like this, happen. We could never arm them all with today's views; but we could train them to use classroom objects to suppress the shooter's fire, distract them, or take them out. We could empower our kids.
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