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The biggest argument about Jerusalem is about religion and who that city belongs to. Both Jews and Muslims claim it to be their's because of what it represents on a religious basis, so yes, religion plays a huge role in this. Jews were there a few thousand years before Islam even existed as a religion. That's just a fact, like it or not.
You are generally accurate, though your timeline is a little fuzzy. We know there were Hebrews in Canaan about 1100 bc, and a recognizable tribe of Judah, so that puts Jews in Palestine about 1700 years before Mohammed. However, Muslims are just a splinter Jewish sect, just like Mormons are a splinter Christian sect. they all worship the same god. Speaking of Christians, they are also a splinter Jewish sect, though that is less recognizable since they have adopted a human god.
The conflict around Israel is only marginally religious, and that arises out of the Jewish claim that Yahweh gave them a deed to the area. There is also a lot of cultural conflict, since the Jewish society is only nominally Middle Eastern, and based primarily on European ideas and lifestyles. The Jews still maintain an apartheid government in Israel because, if they allowed Palestinians and Arabs a voice, the Jews would not be in control any more. Property rights are also a big bone of contention. They started by purchasing land in Israel, but military conflict allowed them to just take what they wanted. The process continues with the ostensibly illegal settlements on the West Bank, though the Israeli military attacks any Palestinian who objects.
Have you learned nothing about Arabs in the 20th and 21st century? They fight in tribal mode. If an Arab sees nothing to personally gain, they leave. Their manner of fighting is mostly snipers and IED's.
Israel is about 8 million Jews surrounded by about 350 million non-Jews, mostly Muslims. The Muslims have had a lot of practice fighting the US and Israel has nowhere near the military base of the US. The likely scenario is that Israel will start to take civilian casualties, which will start a mass egress of Jews back to their countries of origin. They will hold their own for a while, with substantial US military aid, until they start running out of pilots and other trained military personnel. They will have to shrink their territory some for defensive purposes, and the only import-export path will be by air.
Israel has done great in brief strike wars like the Six Day War. There is no way they could survive a prolonged conflict. They will eventually be overwhelmed and Israel will be no more.
You mean the history that records the Palestinians rejecting their own country in 1948 simply because the agreement also allowed the Jews to have their own country also, which the Arabs simply couldn't stand, even as the Jews agreed to the proposal for two nations? The history of the Arabs nations attempting to annihilate Israel the day after the European powers got out of the way, and the Arabs getting their arses kicked? The history in which they hijack planes, kill innocent people, lob rockets at Israel from the places they now whine about Israel taking from them to prevent such things? The history of suicide bombing in Israeli towns, of openly announcing their desire to totally destroy Israel and the Jews?
Yeah, many of us are very aware of this history, and have no sympathy for the Palestinians as a result of this.
We're all aware of this history, of course, but there is the rest of the history that can't be so simply ignored. Again, what parts of this history you are inclined to focus upon and/or ignore depends largely on your bias toward Zionism or against. Your comment makes obvious you are not free of that bias...
To seriously and fairly consider what history has lead to all that you describe, I think one needs to consider how Zionism began and how it was slowly forwarded, first with the strong hand of the British until they wanted to rid themselves of the problem and turned it over to the United States. Know all that history, in detail as well, and that better balance in order to objectively consider BOTH sides of this problem becomes possible.
From your comment, I'm guessing your one of those people who can't do that. There are plenty of books that you can read that do a better job of presenting a less one-sided version of this conflict, one by one of our very own presidents who tried very hard to promote something other than just that one side so obviously biased toward the Zionist cause.
What we need is more people who can see BOTH sides more reasonably and fairly, especially more Jews, like even Bernie Sanders was right to explain. There is another side contrary to Israel's that rightfully can and should be considered if any better chance for peace is to be had!
You really believe that anyone thinks we're a "good faith mediator" in this? C'mon, that's just as nuts as saying there was any "veneer of objectivity".
It's impossible to mediate a compromise when one side will NOT compromise even an inch and the only compromise they'll accept is one that removes Jews from Israel and gives it all to them.
The U.S. chose a side long ago and both sides know it.
As for the "go back to war" comment, when has it ever ended???
The last time the US negotiated in good faith was Jimmy Carter in 1978.
We're all aware of this history, of course, but there is the rest of the history that can't be so simply ignored. Again, what parts of this history you are inclined to focus upon and/or ignore depends largely on your bias toward Zionism or against. Your comment makes obvious you are not free of that bias...
To seriously and fairly consider what history has lead to all that you describe, I think one needs to consider how Zionism began and how it was slowly forwarded, first with the strong hand of the British until they wanted to rid themselves of the problem and turned it over to the United States. Know all that history, in detail as well, and that better balance in order to objectively consider BOTH sides of this problem becomes possible.
From your comment, I'm guessing your one of those people who can't do that. There are plenty of books that you can read that do a better job of presenting a less one-sided version of this conflict, one by one of our very own presidents who tried very hard to promote something other than just that one side so obviously biased toward the Zionist cause.
What we need is more people who can see BOTH sides more reasonably and fairly, especially more Jews, like even Bernie Sanders was right to explain. There is another side contrary to Israel's that can and should be considered if any better chance for peace is to be had!
Please don't make the stupid mistake of trying to guess how others think. It is a lame tactic. I have read a lot on the history. I had numerous discussions on this at another site with a Quaker who was very, very pro Palestinian, so I am well aware of the pre 1948 history, thanks. He was stuttering and muttering at the end of a week or so because his claims didn't quite stand up to the actual facts.
The bottom line is that the Palestinians had the chance to peacefully accept a country of their own. They chose not to, because they cant live in peace with their Jewish neighbors. There is no bias in this, it is simple historical fact. The Jews accepted the partition plan, which included a Palestinian country. The Palestinians refused to, because it included a Jewish country. And they have been attacking the Israelis ever since.
Far from me not wanting to accept all of history, it is the Palestinian side that wants to deny much of the area's history, such as the fact the Israelis deal harshly with the Arabs today specifically because the Arabs have spent 7 decades trying to find new and better ways to exterminate the Israelis.
Its not the Jews who have spent 3/4 of a century trying to figure out how to wipe the Palestinians off the face of the earth. Go learn this simple fact before spouting too much about other peoples biased views of ME history.
Israel is about 8 million Jews surrounded by about 350 million non-Jews, mostly Muslims. The Muslims have had a lot of practice fighting the US and Israel has nowhere near the military base of the US. The likely scenario is that Israel will start to take civilian casualties, which will start a mass egress of Jews back to their countries of origin. They will hold their own for a while, with substantial US military aid, until they start running out of pilots and other trained military personnel. They will have to shrink their territory some for defensive purposes, and the only import-export path will be by air.
Israel has done great in brief strike wars like the Six Day War. There is no way they could survive a prolonged conflict. They will eventually be overwhelmed and Israel will be no more.
Your hysterical scenario assumes A) That neighboring countries would go to war on behalf of the Palestinians and B) Israel wouldn't resort to nuclear weapons if such a pipe dream did actually become reality.
Israel is about 8 million Jews surrounded by about 350 million non-Jews, mostly Muslims. The Muslims have had a lot of practice fighting the US and Israel has nowhere near the military base of the US. The likely scenario is that Israel will start to take civilian casualties, which will start a mass egress of Jews back to their countries of origin. They will hold their own for a while, with substantial US military aid, until they start running out of pilots and other trained military personnel. They will have to shrink their territory some for defensive purposes, and the only import-export path will be by air.
Israel has done great in brief strike wars like the Six Day War. There is no way they could survive a prolonged conflict. They will eventually be overwhelmed and Israel will be no more.
Unless Israel dramatically changes the status quo at the Temple Mount in the Old City of Jerusalem, no bordering country will physically threaten Israel (except for maybe Lebanon). Currently the only country threatening Israel is Iran. Iran will use Hezbollah to do their dirty work. Israel bombs Syria every few weeks as Iran attempts to ship missiles to Lebanon and created launch sites in Syria. If Hezbollah crosses either border into Israel. Israel will not hold back this time around and will bomb them into non-existence. Hezbollah may have missiles, but Israel has much much more in the way of numerous armaments using cutting edge technology. Israelis fight for their lives and not money or land. Arabs fight for money and property. Arab soldiers will gain neither if they fight.Arabs are well known for using human shields.
I know from my experience in Lebanon and my sons know from their experiences in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Ask anyone who has served in the ME. Arabs will not put their own lives on the line.
Israel is about 8 million Jews surrounded by about 350 million non-Jews, mostly Muslims. The Muslims have had a lot of practice fighting the US and Israel has nowhere near the military base of the US. The likely scenario is that Israel will start to take civilian casualties, which will start a mass egress of Jews back to their countries of origin. They will hold their own for a while, with substantial US military aid, until they start running out of pilots and other trained military personnel. They will have to shrink their territory some for defensive purposes, and the only import-export path will be by air.
Israel has done great in brief strike wars like the Six Day War. There is no way they could survive a prolonged conflict. They will eventually be overwhelmed and Israel will be no more.
Keep dreaming. The Arabs got their a**es handed to them in 1948 when there were only 600,000 Jews in Israel, again in 1967 when there were 2.4m Jews in Israel, and then again in 1973 after a sneak attack on Yom Kippur when there were 2.8m Jews in Israel. The Arabs are useless as fighters and as a collective.
Meanwhile, Israel is today more populous, more militarily powerful, and more technologically sophisticated that's it's ever been. The Jewish birth rate has for the first time surpassed that of the Palestinians'. Also, despite the occasional noise of the international public opinion, most sane governments support it and understand that the world is much better off with Israel -- which contributes more to human progress in one year than the entire Muslim world in a century -- than with another backward and violent Arab Muslim state.
Your hysterical scenario assumes A) That neighboring countries would go to war on behalf of the Palestinians and B) Israel wouldn't resort to nuclear weapons if such a pipe dream did actually become reality.
Both A and B are absurd.
Oh yes, the weapons grade Uranium Mossad stole from the United States back in the 60’s and early 70’s so they could make the bomb. (With allies like that who needs enemies right?) God help your country if it ever did something as stupid as dropping a nuke on an Arab state. Even the United States won’t be able to bail you out of that one, as Larry said.
Oh yes, the weapons grade Uranium Mossad stole from the United States back in the 60’s and early 70’s so they could make the bomb. (With allies like that who needs enemies right?) God help your country if it ever did something as stupid as dropping a nuke on an Arab state. Even the United States won’t be able to bail you out of that one, as Larry said.
My scenario was in response to Larry's ridiculous assumption that the Arab world would up and destroy Israel without Israel putting up any sort of fight.
And if pushed to the brink Israel absolutely would use their nukes, they will do anything they have to for survival. Obviously it probably wouldn't get to that point, as their traditional weaponry should be strong enough to withstand any attack from Hamas, West Bank Militants, and Iranian Proxies. I was merely documenting a worst case scenario in where the entire Arab world goes and takes arms against Israel (LOL).
And for the record my country is the United States.
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