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I apologize. My comment was about the fact that your posts were espousing the view that we should all learn proper English and your posts were full of grammatical and spelling errors. But that's unfair of me because you're using English as your second language (I assume) so I apologize for being elitist and rude in my response.That is not my intention at all. You are quoting me out of context and making inferences that are not accurate. But I deserve it because I disrespected you.
Thanks for staying with this thread and not allowing people like me to chase you away. I hope you saw the positive comments I made to you in a more recent post above.
No worries. I enjoy a good debate!! I am trying to work on my grammar. My wife is on me for that always.
Thank you for the last comment. I appreciate it. I feel fortunate to be here in America.
About Spanish and there numbers I feel it should not make a difference. Listen I know what I say might not be so popular with many but its a form of respect to appreciate America's roots. The debate is not that we should worship America and its culture but respect its roots. We live free here no matter what. Why should we not honor America for what it is and who encouraged it to be what it is? Its not the people that have been living here all their lives that are wanting to change America for the most part. Its the immigrants that have fled their country for some reason or another and not willing to conform to our way of life. They try to emboss there beliefs on us and change America. Can you not see what's happening to Europe? They have a mess in there hands.
I think you are a Patriot too. It sometimes takes someone like you to get others to appreciate the wonderful freedoms we take for granted in this country. I'm sure you still have family back in Cuba that would love to have some of the problems we face in this country. Please don't take offense when liberals start picking apart your grammar and your mispelled words. They like to make sure you know how many degrees they have also it makes them feel superior they are very predictable. They need to validate themselves this way and that's ok, whatever helps them get through the day. The truth is they don't like what you are saying and it's offensive to them. They think everything is offensive that they don't agree with. They themselves are an extremely intolerant group. Keep up the goos work Cuban!!
I will wait for MY English lesson now or my neg rep.
Thank you for the last comment. I appreciate it. I feel fortunate to be here in America.
About Spanish and there numbers I feel it should not make a difference. Listen I know what I say might not be so popular with many but its a form of respect to appreciate America's roots. The debate is not that we should worship America and its culture but respect its roots. We live free here no matter what. Why should we not honor America for what it is and who encouraged it to be what it is? Its not the people that have been living here all their lives that are wanting to change America for the most part. Its the immigrants that have fled their country for some reason or another and not willing to conform to our way of life. They try to emboss there beliefs on us and change America. Can you not see what's happening to Europe? They have a mess in there hands.
You make an excellent point and I couldn't agree with you more. I think the vast majority of citizens in this country feel this way, but are scared to speak out on fears of being labeled racist or bigot. We've been socially engineered in this country into doing just that--quickly throwing those types of labels on people with dissenting opinions on topics such as this in a vastly irrational way. IMO we are no different than europe in this regard, other than the fact that the large immigrant population we have coming into this country happens to share our fundamental belief system (judeo-christian), but as you can find in national polls and post after post on this forum, people tend to agree that it doesn't appear that many of our current illegal immigrants are willing to become part of our country, but rather make ours a part of their own (Aztlan, if anyone is familiar with that). If we believe in this multiculturism rhetoric, then we'll continue to bend over backwards and accomodate people in their native language in all aspects of life so that they never have to learn English to function here... America should have seen the writing on the wall years ago...we are becoming a bilingual society, and NOBODY can convince me that is a positive thing in terms of keeping our country together as 1.
Just look at Canada. Quebec may as well be its own country and the people there overwhelmingly feel that way too. Why? Because there's a language divide, thus creating a strong cultural divide as well. We are a nation of immigrants and of many colors in America, but language is our common ground, and it helps hold us together. When that stops being true, we are going to regret it...
Multicultrualism is such an abstract concept that I have a hard time seeing how anyone could be either a supporter or an opponent of it. Even reading through this thread and reading all of those who are against it, I haven't been able to deduce what exactly it is that they're striking out against. The only thing I've been able to get out of it is that people don't like hearing other languages or seeing documents written in them. What specifically are opponents of multiculturalism opposing and how would they even go about changing whatever it is that they disagree with?
As much as I don't want to enter into political debates on this board, and will probably jump ship after this, I do have to say that in many instances the concept of multiculturalism that people seem to be striking out against, goes hand in hand with capitalism. When seeing such large numbers of people in this country who even if they DO speak English, are more comfortable speaking another language whether it be Spanish (the most likely), Cantonese, Russian or Korean, it would serve a company's bottom line better to try to include these groups to broaden their customer base. There will always be small local banks, grocery stores, insurance companies and such that will cater specifically to an ethnic community as there always have been in this country when the chief immigrants spoke German, Italian and Swedish. Wanting to be competitive, it makes sense for larger companies to expand their market by making an effort to include these people in their networks through various means, including on-site translators or signs/forms, etc. in multipile languages.
Don't take this the wrong way. I think your post holds some merit. Language is the bases of the many parts of this cultural debate. To entertain other languages on a equal plane we are inviting competition and a clash of cultures. It starts with language then it slowly expands to their core beliefs. Its happening to Europe right now. That is why Toni Blair is talking against multicultrualism.
You make an excellent point and I couldn't agree with you more. I think the vast majority of citizens in this country feel this way, but are scared to speak out on fears of being labeled racist or bigot. We've been socially engineered in this country into doing just that--quickly throwing those types of labels on people with dissenting opinions on topics such as this in a vastly irrational way. IMO we are no different than europe in this regard, other than the fact that the large immigrant population we have coming into this country happens to share our fundamental belief system (judeo-christian), but as you can find in national polls and post after post on this forum, people tend to agree that it doesn't appear that many of our current illegal immigrants are willing to become part of our country, but rather make ours a part of their own (Aztlan, if anyone is familiar with that). If we believe in this multiculturism rhetoric, then we'll continue to bend over backwards and accomodate people in their native language in all aspects of life so that they never have to learn English to function here... America should have seen the writing on the wall years ago...we are becoming a bilingual society, and NOBODY can convince me that is a positive thing in terms of keeping our country together as 1.
Just look at Canada. Quebec may as well be its own country and the people there overwhelmingly feel that way too. Why? Because there's a language divide, thus creating a strong cultural divide as well. We are a nation of immigrants and of many colors in America, but language is our common ground, and it helps hold us together. When that stops being true, we are going to regret it...
I think you are a Patriot too. It sometimes takes someone like you to get others to appreciate the wonderful freedoms we take for granted in this country. I'm sure you still have family back in Cuba that would love to have some of the problems we face in this country. Please don't take offense when liberals start picking apart your grammar and your mispelled words. They like to make sure you know how many degrees they have also it makes them feel superior they are very predictable. They need to validate themselves this way and that's ok, whatever helps them get through the day. The truth is they don't like what you are saying and it's offensive to them. They think everything is offensive that they don't agree with. They themselves are an extremely intolerant group. Keep up the goos work Cuban!!
I will wait for MY English lesson now or my neg rep.
Thank you!! I never said perfect English or grammar is required. I do have family in Cuba. My aunt was able to bring my cousin over last year. The first place my my aunt took my cousin to was the grocery store. She had to be carried out. She broke out in tears and fainted. She was overwhelmed by the food on the shelves. Some people don't have a clue to how fortunate they are to live in America. By the way I spoke to her in English this weekend.
Its not the people that have been living here all their lives that are wanting to change America for the most part. Its the immigrants that have fled their country for some reason or another and not willing to conform to our way of life. They try to emboss there beliefs on us and change America.
It would be unfair to blame all of the dramatic changes in modern America on immigrants. Quite a few of the "hot button" topics are from people who's families have lived here for generations.
Like the idea of not saying "Christmas." Most non-European immigrants are more religious than either U.S. or Canada and would respect if we wanted to call it that, just as they would expect us to respect holidays like Rammadan in their home countries.
It's mostly our own atheists who protest Christmas, nativity scenes, carols etc. I think it's probably the same kind of Americans who are suing the government over them thinking your Pledge of Alliegance is unconstitutional.
I think it's also highly unlikely that American history is sometimes being censored because the immigrants are most deeply offended that slavery existed here 150 years ago.
Just like I mentioned before, an older school that was named after George Washington "had to be re-named" because someone found out he owned slaves.
Just look at Canada. Quebec may as well be its own country and the people there overwhelmingly feel that way too. Why? Because there's a language divide, thus creating a strong cultural divide as well. We are a nation of immigrants and of many colors in America, but language is our common ground, and it helps hold us together. When that stops being true, we are going to regret it...
Our government freely gives a little more money to Quebec than other places (as the rumours say) but they aren't trying to make the rest of us speak French and we aren't trying to make them English.
We have bi-lingual signs in my part of Canada but other than that its 100% English. The people who don't want to speak it isolate themselves into their own ethnic communities.
I guess the difference is we're different, but at the moment we just don't care. It's almost irrelevant.
It would be unfair to blame all of the dramatic changes in modern America on immigrants. Quite a few of the "hot button" topics are from people who's families have lived here for generations.
Like the idea of not saying "Christmas." Most non-European immigrants are more religious than either U.S. or Canada and would respect if we wanted to call it that, just as they would expect us to respect holidays like Rammadan in their home countries.
It's mostly our own atheists who protest Christmas, nativity scenes, carols etc. I think it's probably the same kind of Americans who are suing the government over them thinking your Pledge of Alliegance is unconstitutional.
I think it's also highly unlikely that American history is sometimes being censored because the immigrants are most deeply offended that slavery existed here 150 years ago.
Just like I mentioned before, an older school that was named after George Washington "had to be re-named" because someone found out he owned slaves.
Your right I forgot to include the liberals. By the way slavery was not invented by the Americans. Also America was the the first lift those bonds.
Don't take this the wrong way. I think your post holds some merit. Language is the bases of the many parts of this cultural debate. To entertain other languages on a equal plane we are inviting competition and a clash of cultures. It starts with language then it slowly expands to their core beliefs. Its happening to Europe right now. That is why Toni Blair is talking against multicultrualism.
The situation in Europe is very different from the situation in the United States due to differing histories, immigration laws, and the culture of the immigrants themselves so I don't think really a blanket comparison between America and any European country really works. America is a nation of immigrants and has arguably successfully integrated more immigrant groups than any other nation on Earth. This "success" however is judged after the fact. Look back at newspaper editorials from the late 1800s and you'll see a similar debate erupting in this country over the increasing "threat" of German becoming the national language (it was taught in many schools at the time for half the day, just as Spanish is today), or in the 1920s and hear of people complaining about Italians and Poles refusing to assimilate, speaking their own languages, bringing their foreign cultural traditions with them and isolating themselves in their own neighborhoods. People didn't think that these immigrants were integrating and didn't like the road that we were going down fearing an Italian/Polish/Jewish/Czech/Irish-ization of America. Flash forward to today. How much Italian do you hear nowadays? French? German? Norwegian? These things take time. This debate is nothing new even though people seem to think that it is. It's just different groups, and I don't really see us being any more accomodating to various immigrant groups than we have in the past. We have always had bilingual signs and translators in areas with many immigrants. We have always had ethnic ghettoes. We have always had immigrants longing for the old country, hanging their flags outside their doorways and listening to their "own" music and wearing fashion from their homeland. We have always attempted to be more inclusive than exclusive. We have always taken certain culture and food from various immigrant groups while rejecting some and holding steady to our nation's core beliefs. We're following the same path, with the same laws that we have for countless years and have survived countless waves of immigration. Assimilation is not, and has never been, an overnight process.
I still don't see what it is that people are against and what exactly are their solutions to this "problem". As I said, the only thing that I can get out of this is that people don't like seeing or hearing other languages. Okay, well then what do you recommend be done to stop this? You can't force people to speak English when they're out and about. You can mandate that official documents and signage be in English only but what will that really accomplish? How will that really force people to learn English? There will always be people speaking their own native language with friends and family out of comfort (just as if I were to go to Mexico, even though I speak Spanish fluently, if I were around American friends and family, I'd speak in English to them, even in public). There will always be fast food employees who are new immigrants trying to learn the language but struggling and therefore getting orders wrong or giving you puzzled glances. There will always be fringe groups like La Raza. This is a cycle we have gone through repeatedly and will go through in the future. It's just the parties that change. Yesterday it was Ireland, Scotland, Russia and Germany. Today, it is Mexico, El Salvador, China and India. Tomorrow, maybe it will be Nigeria, Angola, Indonesia and Turkey. No one knows. The only certainty is that this same debate will occur many times in the future, and perhaps it will be third-generation Mexican-Americans complaining about the new Indonesians' refusal to assimilate?
Last edited by dullnboring; 12-10-2006 at 08:31 PM..
Reason: wanted to add a few more things
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