Who's or what's to blame for the high price of Oil and Gas? (gas price, generation)

[illinoisjustice]

Originally Posted by JTraik

Greedy Arabs.

ummm, interesting, although it deviates a little from the 9-point list that you gave kudos to later on. I'm just going to assume that this was your lazy answer. I like to think of something they taught us in college, called supply and demand.

[azbo]

Originally Posted by pghquest

You must be liberal...

"Congress for not supporting a requirement that cars get better gasoline mileage".

First, Congress helped cause this mess (note the previous list)
Second, They did legislate a mileage increase, an increase thats not even practicle.
Third, You dont need government to dictate mileage.. last I checked there was a huge race to provide higher MPG vehicles without governmental influence.

I'm not liberal but I think you skipped the more important factors in his list "The Federal Government for not enforcing anti trust legislation that would have created more competition in the energy industry. The Bush Administration for not looking into price fixing and manipulation of energy supplies." There is obviously collusion in gas pricing.

[Bunni]

The weather, we blame everything else on it, but it does have something to do with it. I just heard on the news if conditions in the weather get worse, it will go up 5 to 6 dollars a gallon. As for who's to blame, guess that's mama nature. : D

[Innovator831021]

Originally Posted by illinoisjustice

ummm, interesting, although it deviates a little from the 9-point list that you gave kudos to later on. I'm just going to assume that this was your lazy answer. I like to think of something they taught us in college, called supply and demand.

No.

[harborlady]

Originally Posted by politically_correct

Congress for not supporting a requirement that cars get better gasoline mileage. Bush for not pushing real energy legislation through Congress. The Federal Government for not enforcing anti trust legislation that would have created more competition in the energy industry. The Bush Administration for not looking into price fixing and manipulation of energy supplies. The Oil Companies for not spending enough money on research and development of new energy supplies. Americans for driving to much for silly reasons in SUV's

Your list is the most comprehensive, but you missed a few things. Gov't authority being abused to actively suppress new technology, poorly designed infrastructure that hinges on the price of oil index, inflationary indicators not yet posted for this fiscal year (or its being hidden in m3) and abuses upstream commodities market unregulated. The buck stops here, though, because this is our gov't, and our laws, and our country, so it really is our fault.

nigerian 5 cent whatnot- please watch over time- oil shuts down, the whole worlds price goes up. oil restarts in nigeria, the price never ever goes down.
Katrina knocks oil production in the gulf, worlds price goes up that very moment, oil production resumes there, the price never goes down.
sudan has active war threatening chinas oil supply, but china trades guns for oil. that relationship works for them. Ever talk to one of those sudanese refugees?

The price of oil has not gone down in... 3 decades or better. Still, people prefer to think that it was all inflation, which would mean that after 8 yrs in the whitehouse bush & fed have diminished $1 to 25 cents. That sound right? Supply increases, you'd think we'd see a decrease? There were ships loaded off the coast of iran being used as storage for surplus. same exact thing happened in the 70's. Just sat there offshore waiting for the price to get fixed higher. It's called a market run up, and ramping, folks. They will do it again, and again, for as long as they can get by with it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_manipulation

Had drilling already occurred 10 yrs ago in ANWR, the price would still go up. Unregulated international index determines 'fair price', so even the oil we generate in continental US doesn't neccessarily stay here. That's why dems are arguing with oil, aside from environmental liabilities that exxon still hasn't owned up to in the courts through lengthy appeals that have dragged out now for 19 yrs. But bush voters think environmentalists have held everything up? Interesting- 19 yrs exxon doesn't pay through playing games in court, and somehow thats the environmentalists fault?
Maybe we'll see answers by july 2008. Alito recused himself because he owns over 100k of exxon stock.

We should blame alaska for guarding ANWR? Blame the 40,000 people in the oil workers union who want congress to enact a comprehensive energy plan for the USA as pre condition of drilling in ANWR? Thank god they did, or the minute it comes out of the ground china could outbid america for it's own oil, and companies operating like low rent idiots because they've been rewarded so well for it can just declare bankruptsy, pass it all off on insurance carriers and walk away like nothing happened when an entire fishing industry is gone for good. Perhaps people wanting oil badly enough in the lower 48 could get it by using their vacation time to scrape the shoreline in prince william sound for a week or two.

I don't think I can impress upon people enough how much our oil policy hurts us as a nation, and how this locked in infrastructure we willingly invest in turns us all into sheople herded for regular fleecing. You're either willing to wake up and smell a true free market, or continue encouraging our whole civilization to model itself on permanent dependance models instead of independance.

[pghquest]

Originally Posted by harborlady

Your list is the most comprehensive, but you missed a few things. Gov't authority being abused to actively suppress new technology, poorly designed infrastructure that hinges on the price of oil index, inflationary indicators not yet posted for this fiscal year (or its being hidden in m3) and abuses upstream commodities market unregulated. The buck stops here, though, because this is our gov't, and our laws, and our country, so it really is our fault.

Sure, its our fault, because in the last 30 years we have not built an oil refinery, nuclear power plant, or a coal to oil power source. Yes, the commodities market is currently betting on the run up of oil, but the commodities market does not dictate the price of oil. They are speculating as to what the oil price will be in a few months, not the current price, and the speculating is a gamble based upon direct supply/demand. If you think the commodities market is responsible for the price of oil, please explain why Amsterdam is paying $6.48 per gallon at the moment because last I checked, the commodities market was based in the USA, not Amsterdam.

[pghquest]

Originally Posted by harborlady

Had drilling already occurred 10 yrs ago in ANWR, the price would still go up. Unregulated international index determines 'fair price', so even the oil we generate in continental US doesn't neccessarily stay here.

Talking about just ANWR as justification for the oil going up is not a fair comparison because it completely ignores all of the other power sources that have also been fought over the last 10+ years. If you look at just ANWR, add drilling in Tar sands, off shore drilling, Nuclear plants, hydro plants, and various other power sources that would have reduced the demand on oil, then the price of oil would have no choice but to have gone done. Even if it did not go down there is no way it would be going up at 50% a year like the current price of oil is increasing.

Originally Posted by harborlady

That's why dems are arguing with oil, aside from environmental liabilities that exxon still hasn't owned up to in the courts through lengthy appeals that have dragged out now for 19 yrs.

Dems siding with oil? I think you missed the oil hearings that just went on in Washington where the Democrats not only blamed big oil companies, but proclaimed that they wanted to take over the oil companies.

As for Exxon not paying their exhorbidant fine, good.. I hope they continue to drag it out even longer. Another 10 years if they can. I would never criticize anyone for exercising their right to an appeal. Why would they not fight a fine that was excessive?

Originally Posted by harborlady

But bush voters think environmentalists have held everything up? Interesting- 19 yrs exxon doesn't pay through playing games in court, and somehow thats the environmentalists fault?

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Exxon not paying their fine has absolutely positively nothing to do with the price of oil. Environmentalists have held up drilling for new sources of oil, expanding current known avenues of oil, and the creation of new power sources like nuclear and hydro dams. If you think they havent held things up, name ONE power source which has come online in the USA over the last 10 years. Heck, I'll be generous, how about 20 years? You cant because there has not been one. To try to equate Exxon and their not paying a fine to the failure to build power plants is a rediculous argument.

Originally Posted by harborlady

We should blame alaska for guarding ANWR? Blame the 40,000 people in the oil workers union who want congress to enact a comprehensive energy plan for the USA as pre condition of drilling in ANWR?

Alaska isnt guarding ANWR. Not even the citizens that live there are, its environmental wackos from the rest of the country, most of them who have never even been to ANWR. They are not asking for a comprehensive energy plan as a pre condition, they are refusing to allow drilling based upon environmental issues. Environmental issues is not an energy plan even if you say it is.

Originally Posted by harborlady

Thank god they did, or the minute it comes out of the ground china could outbid america for it's own oil, and companies operating like low rent idiots because they've been rewarded so well for it can just declare bankruptsy, pass it all off on insurance carriers and walk away like nothing happened when an entire fishing industry is gone for good.

And here you show your lack of understanding how the oil supply works. China can not "outbid" America for its own oil. Oil all goes into the same supply lines through the country, with oil from the USA getting mixed up with those from China, Mexico, Canada etc. Even if what you stated was true, and China outbid america for its own oil, this would mean lower world wide demand on oil, thereby reducing the costs.

Fishing industry gone for good? I bet that's somehow or another big oils fault also.. Ohh, I know.. the fishing industry is gone because the supply of fish from fish farms are now at such an abundance that there is no need to risk individuals lives out in the ocean. If you think its anything other then a supply/demand issue, then you need to go out and shop for fish sometime. There is an abundance of it in all fish stores.

Finally, I'm really interested in hearing about those oil companies that you know of that have gone bankrupt, leaving (the fish industry?) to the insurance companies.

[Delta Planter]

Can anyone understand S-P-E-C-U-L-A-T-I-O-N?

[pghquest]

Originally Posted by Delta Planter

Can anyone understand S-P-E-C-U-L-A-T-I-O-N?

Note to class: please attempt to sign up for some type of class on how the stock market works before making posts like this. I'll point back to my previous posting for reference.

"Sure, its our fault, because in the last 30 years we have not built an oil refinery, nuclear power plant, or a coal to oil power source. Yes, the commodities market is currently betting on the run up of oil, but the commodities market does not dictate the price of oil. They are speculating as to what the oil price will be in a few months, not the current price, and the speculating is a gamble based upon direct supply/demand. If you think the commodities market is responsible for the price of oil, please explain why Amsterdam is paying $6.48 per gallon at the moment because last I checked, the commodities market was based in the USA, not Amsterdam."

[harborlady]

sure. I understand plenty. Speculation means I can start a rumor to make a stampede happen, then cash in. It's also very lucrative.

However, the price at the pump won't go down, even after the speculation stampede is done. Gold goes down. Everything else goes down. We will never see $3 gallon gas again. Let's ask walmart what they would do about it.