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i think putin's #1 goal is to stay in power / accumulate more power
his #2 goal is to expand Russia's geopolitical power.
That describes virtually every world leader in existence, and most international organizations like the UN as well.
Putin is a thug. No doubt. So is every US president going back to Washington, damn near every leader of every European nation in history not named Neville Chamberlain, 95% of the leaders in the UN, etc.
Of course he's a bad guy. All government leaders are, because all governments are monopolies on force and violence and exist to bully the citizenry to achieve nationalist goals. You cannot be a good guy and run a government. It's impossible by definition.
That describes virtually every world leader in existence
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Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian
Putin is a thug. No doubt. So is every US president going back to Washington, damn near every leader of every European nation in history not named Neville Chamberlain, 95% of the leaders in the UN, etc.
No
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian
Of course he's a bad guy. All government leaders are, because all governments are monopolies on force and violence and exist to bully the citizenry to achieve nationalist goals. You cannot be a good guy and run a government. It's impossible by definition.
You're programmed to believe in both the benevolence and the necessity of government. It's hard to break free from that mindset.
History gives near perfect repetition of the cycle that proves all governments evolve to tyranny, and human civilization still denies that the pattern exists.
World leaders, by and large, are thugs and bullies. Some wrap their bullying in friendlier looking packaging, and take days off from stealing milk money, but they are all thugs and bullies. Putin is just obvious and intellectually honest about his thuggery. He doesn't hide it behind lofty rhetoric and noble sounding marketing. He comes out and tells you he's a thug...kinda proudly actually.
You're programmed to believe in both the benevolence and the necessity of government. It's hard to break free from that mindset.
No
Quote:
History gives near perfect repetition of the cycle that proves all governments evolve to tyranny, and human civilization still denies that the pattern exists.
No
Quote:
World leaders, by and large, are thugs and bullies. Some wrap their bullying in friendlier looking packaging, and take days off from stealing milk money, but they are all thugs and bullies. Putin is just obvious and intellectually honest about his thuggery. He doesn't hide it behind lofty rhetoric and noble sounding marketing. He comes out and tells you he's a thug...kinda proudly actually.
I don't know how bad/evil a man Putin is. I do know he's a very dangerous man. His KGB background in intelligence work indicates that he has developed a tremendous skill in risk-assessment. When he is considering what actions to take, he looks at a problem from all sides, he considers all possible outcomes that would come from taking an action, and based on careful consideration he takes what he considers to be the best action. His final goal is to return Russia to its previous level of influence when the Soviet Union was a superpower. His moral guide is will his actions further that goal. For him, if it increases Russia's influence and power, it is good. Anything that impedes that goal is bad. It's not that he believes he is the only person who can fix things for Russia, it's that he believes he is the person best positioned to do so. And he's loath to relinquish that position. He'll do whatever it takes. And he'll be smart about it. That's a dangerous man.
That, sir, is a superior summary.
One thing to watch for: via the Russian Constitution Mr. Putin will not be able to 'run' again for the Presidency in 2024, which prohibits more than two conservative terms, but does not limit 'total' terms (like we do).
Recall, he served two consecutive terms as President, then served as Prime Minister for six years, while some lackey (I can't even recall his name) served as "president'. Mr. Putin was then free to run again in 2012, and then again in 2018.
In 2024 Mr. Putin will be 72 years old, but he seems fit. He does have some options (Prime Minister again, or 'speaker' of their version of the House).
However, I would bet that by 2024 the Russian Constitution will be changed to allow him to 'run' yet again. No doubt he looked on with interest as the Chinese government obligingly changed their constitution to allow the current leader to stay on for life.
That describes virtually every world leader in existence, and most international organizations like the UN as well.
Putin is a thug. No doubt. So is every US president going back to Washington, damn near every leader of every European nation in history not named Neville Chamberlain, 95% of the leaders in the UN, etc.
Of course he's a bad guy. All government leaders are,
Ah, reflections of the "there are good and bad people on both sides" Nazi approval......by Don the Con.
This is how it starts...."they are all the same". But this is not true. While powerful countries usually project force, we cannot say that Putin and other world leaders are all the same or all equal.
Now - if you want to compare him to some African King who is stealing all the wealth of The People, that's another thing.
Using a basic relationship to GDP and Population, you'd have to show us a US POTUS who stole 100's of Billions of our money and was transferring and laundering it all over the world....AND, who was using much of it to undermine the Western Way. While we can find small examples, Russia stands alone among in that sense (the percentage of his countries wealth being plundered...AND, his spoken distaste for the Western way of life).
Ah, reflections of the "there are good and bad people on both sides" Nazi approval......by Don the Con.
This is how it starts...."they are all the same". But this is not true. While powerful countries usually project force, we cannot say that Putin and other world leaders are all the same or all equal.
Now - if you want to compare him to some African King who is stealing all the wealth of The People, that's another thing.
Using a basic relationship to GDP and Population, you'd have to show us a US POTUS who stole 100's of Billions of our money and was transferring and laundering it all over the world....AND, who was using much of it to undermine the Western Way. While we can find small examples, Russia stands alone among in that sense (the percentage of his countries wealth being plundered...AND, his spoken distaste for the Western way of life).
I've never said anything other than Putin is a thuggish dictator. I accept that same as I accept water being wet. The reason I accept it so easily is because I truly feel that the vast majority of all world leaders are thuggish dictators as well. Some just hide it better than others.
Governments are cancers that devour and destroy. Putin is just an aggressive form of that cancer. I despise him with the same general contempt I despise all world leaders, who at the end of the day exist to rob/bully their own people in order t hold/amass their own power, almost always in the name of some form of nationalism.
Power corrupts, and the absolute power afforded to most heads of state corrupts absolutely. America is ruled by a tyrannical thugocracy split into two sections. But because that thugocracy is the devil we know, we are OK with it, where Putin's evil is unfamiliar brand so we find him particularly icky and loathsome. Ask the family of any of Obama drone strike victims who they think is the biggest thug on the playground. Ask the 3rd world country farmer who cannot move their farming beyond subsistence because one country in particular rules the global agriculture markets with an iron fist. Ask the people of Ukraine who voted for one guy and had our country engineer the overthrow of their political will by ousting that guy and propping up our guy. We are the biggest bullies on the planet, we just wrap it in rah rah democracy platitudes.
All Putin represents is a future point on the evolution to tyranny. He's simply ahead of our own government on that particular trajectory. We'll evolve to where he is, bank on it.
And I never said there are good and bad guys. I said, and be very clear on this - THERE ARE ONLY BAD GUYS, WITH VARYING DEGREES OF JUST HOW BAD.
Ask the 3rd world country farmer who cannot move their farming beyond subsistence because one country in particular rules the global agriculture markets with an iron fist. .
Well, then global stats which show more of those people pulled out of poverty than ever before in the history of the world must be lies, eh?
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