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Old 05-18-2018, 04:05 PM
 
Location: My House
34,938 posts, read 36,264,326 times
Reputation: 26552

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger View Post
Definitely. If you leave your weapons unsecured you have a legal problem as far as I’m concerned.
You are a responsible gun owner. Even if you and I disagree a lot of the time, I've never doubted that you were a responsible gun owner.

All gun owners should want others who own guns to be responsible with their firearms.

I really do think that the irresponsible gun owners are going to cause more problems than the anti-gun crowd (I am not anti-gun at all), because they keep proving the anti-gun people's arguments about firearm safety.

Which sucks because people USED to be safer with weapons.

Even when boys had guns on racks in high schools, they were typically in the country and those boys had been shooting and hunting since they were kids and their fathers and grandfathers taught them how to use guns safely and what it meant to take a life.

I do not think that is happening so much now.

And, that is a big part of the problem.
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Old 05-18-2018, 04:06 PM
 
Location: San Diego
50,298 posts, read 47,056,299 times
Reputation: 34080
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedZin View Post
And, should someone manage to thwart a gun safe, I do not think anyone reasonable would argue that the owner did all they could to properly secure the weapons.

But, that is not what happened in this particular case. At least, it does not appear to be because this kid had taken photos in the past of guns at home, so I assume he had easy access.

That is a problem.
Most gun safes have a key. Are we really to treat our kids like they are criminals? I've taught mine how to access the safe in an emergency. Why? Because I know damn well we can trust them and I have guns specifically for a home invasion.

Again, either your kid is good or evil. Not much in between.
 
Old 05-18-2018, 04:06 PM
 
Location: My House
34,938 posts, read 36,264,326 times
Reputation: 26552
Quote:
Originally Posted by tripleh View Post
how long before the left tries to politicize this? nvm, they already have the shooter used the gun....the gun is not at fault, the shooter is.

they have a ways to go before they catch up to Chicago.
I think they need to fault the shooter and his father.

I don't think I have read anyone today specifically faulting the gun in this case.

But, I don't know everyone and I am not really in close, regular contact with too many people who are actually anti-gun.
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Old 05-18-2018, 04:06 PM
 
14,993 posts, read 23,896,013 times
Reputation: 26523
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedZin View Post
You really are determined to ignore a problem, aren't you?

A school is pretty much the last place that anyone other than a highly-trained professional should be wandering around while they have a gun on their person.

Too hard to keep said gun secured.

Most school shooters are kids themselves. A good many get guns from parents or obtain them illegally (gun show loophole for the Columbine killers).

We need to fix that. Holding parents accountable would be a good start.

I see the larger goal to be retaining 2nd amendment rights while reducing the number of school shootings (hell, the number of shootings, period).

Why are you against that sort of thing? I mean, if you are not, it sure sounds like you are.

If you think a guy who cannot even keep his gun secured and away from a teen he KNOWS in his home can be trusted to walk AMONG a lot of teens, some he does NOT know, and keep a gun from them, you're really putting way more trust into that guy than he deserves.
There is no such thing as a "gun show loophole". That's just some crap you read on some blog for the unaware or ignorant to read and gasp at. The loophole, if you will, is in private sales...those can happen anywhere including your front lawn, but most if not all gun shows use FFL licensed dealers and checks are done on the spot. I know I've been to plenty of gun shows. Private sellers are rare.
Also Columbine shooters obtained weapons from a friend, not from a gun show.

The weapons used in this shooting were a shotgun and .38 revolver as I understand it. Firearm technology dating from the early previous century. No 30 round mag, no semi-auto, no "assault weapon".
The focus on weapons is why we can't solve these tragic events. It's deeper than that.

EDIT: I do agree with holding parents accountable however, and keeping weapons secured. Absolutely!
 
Old 05-18-2018, 04:08 PM
 
Location: My House
34,938 posts, read 36,264,326 times
Reputation: 26552
Quote:
Originally Posted by 16 Acres View Post
I'm not here to argue, just want to point out that there are two sides to it. By the way, by the time the kid would had gone upstairs and woke his Mother and she fumbled to find the keys and stumbled over to the safe, then unlocked it, then got out the gun, there would had been no chance for anyone to survive, not in my scenario. Now, what I posted was just a scenario, but it does happen. We could go back in history and find 1000's of examples. But my main point here is that there is no simple answer to cover it all. Other than if everyone somehow just found love and compassion in their hearts.
The scenario where the kid shoots himself, his parents, his siblings, or a neighbor kid is way more likely than him thwarting robbers unless he lives in a high-crime area and has the tactical training of a Navy Seal.
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Old 05-18-2018, 04:08 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,840,107 times
Reputation: 13714
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
So you are telling me the legal restrictions on owning an stinger missile are the same as buying a handgun?
Are you allowed to KILL anyone with either one? No. Then, yes, it's the SAME.
 
Old 05-18-2018, 04:09 PM
 
13,422 posts, read 9,955,563 times
Reputation: 14357
Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise View Post
I said the total number stayed virtually the same. The methods other than guns skyrocketed. Reading is fundamental, apparently.

Talk about cherry picking. The total NUMBER doesn't matter, because it doesn't fit your narrative? So you move the goal post to number of incidents.
I'm sorry, are you saying that 10 deaths (not caused by firearm use) in 20 years more than the 20 years prior, given a quite substantial increase in population and other factors, is statistically significant? (Referring to your figure of 86 prior and 96 after.). Not to mention 12 or so of those were your unfortunate murder/suicide, not random mass killings. Oh right, you said it stayed the same. So what's your point?

Going from one to two methods is not "skyrocketing", neither none to one, and even none to four.

Arson attacks have been going on in Australia before and since, fortunately not claiming as many lives as the ones listed. Bushfire arsons are unfortunately quite common. Are you saying there's more arson than previously? Where's the figures on that?

Are you saying that if people hadn't complied with the gun buyback, none of these things would have happened?

Because the thing is, there's not been a significant increase in other mass murder methods, and there has been a complete cessation of mass shootings of the general public. Hopefully it stays that way. Nothing's perfect.
 
Old 05-18-2018, 04:10 PM
 
Location: My House
34,938 posts, read 36,264,326 times
Reputation: 26552
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
So now keys have to go in a gun safe? We hear about teens sneaking out the family car all the time.

Come on, either your kid is good or bad. At some point you cannot blame the parents for the devil spawn and their evils, 18 years old or not.

Plus, most kids know wayyyy more about social media, tech etc than the average parent now. They can post crap and hide it easy.
Parents need to learn more about social media. That's on them. If they are going to give their kids unfettered access to computing devices, they need to know how those are used.

Just like cars and guns.

I'm not suggesting you lock up your keys from a kid with a license, but is it a good idea to keep them away from toddlers? Yes. They sometimes do things like start up a car and run it through a wall.
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Old 05-18-2018, 04:10 PM
 
Location: San Jose
2,594 posts, read 1,241,822 times
Reputation: 2590
Looked up the legal restrictions for the possession of a military grade weapon:

You need to be eligible to possess firearms in general.

You must live in a state where NFA items are permitted and machine guns, specifically, are legal to possess.
The machine gun you wish to acquire must have been manufactured on or before May 19, 1986. That is the cutoff date for entries to be made in the NFRTR (National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record), the registry of all NFA items in the United States including machine guns.

You must locate a Class III dealer (FFL01+SOT) that sells or can transfer in the machine gun you wish to acquire in your state of residence.

You must purchase the machine gun upfront prior to transfer and have it shipped to your Class III dealer. For a full-auto M16, this will be anywhere from $12,000 and up. Typical prices for an M16 hover around $14,000 to $16,000.
Once purchased and with your dealer, the dealer will fill out the Form 4 application on your behalf to submission to the BATFE and collect your $200 NFA transfer stamp tax.
The application will be submitted. Now you wait 8+ months for the full FBI background check and BATFE processing to complete.

Once the Form 4 is processed, it will be returned to the dealer along with the tax stamp which is part of your paperwork. You can then take possession of your military grade fully automatic firearm and take it home.
The tax stamp must be kept with the firearm it belongs to at all times! The tax stamp is your only affirmative defense to prove you are not in possession of an illegal machine gun. The tax stamp is proof you paid the transfer tax and legally transferred the machine gun. Ranges that allow Class III will want to see the stamp. If you get pulled over and the gun is discovered/inspected, law enforcement will definitely want to see it too. You may be required to present the firearm for inspection on demand by the BATFE.

You may not transport the fully automatic firearm across state lines for any purpose without prior consent of the Federal government. You must request this in advance and provide details on where the firearm is going, when you are leaving and when it will return to its registered location of residence.

You cannot leave the presence of your fully automatic firearm. If someone else is shooting it, you must be with it, legally speaking. The one exception to this is if you have formed a legal trust for the purpose of possessing the firearm, in which case all beneficiaries of the trust (usually family or employees) may have access to the firearm.


Why isn't this level of gun control put in place for ALL firearms? This would not be in violation of the 2nd Amendment and we would have far less mass shootings and far less gun related homicides.
 
Old 05-18-2018, 04:10 PM
 
Location: PSL
8,224 posts, read 3,498,932 times
Reputation: 2963
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
Except most of Europe is way more liberal then us and they have way less mass shootings. Your point makes little to no sense.
That tends to happen when evidence contrary to a popular belief is cited.

Europe is more than 1 country/nation.
Poland is a a European country.

If Europe = more liberal then so too must be true for Poland.
But it isnt...
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