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Old 07-06-2018, 03:49 PM
 
10,920 posts, read 6,915,650 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Another poster mentioned the Quakers. And while they are pacifists, they also participate in the war effort, so taxing them to pay for war is justified. The Quakers formed unarmed pacifist units to supply relief to refugees and ambulances to drive in battle zones picking up the wounded in WWII. The Quakers were awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1947 for this work.
Eh - debatable.

Also, who is to say that modern-day Quakers feel similarly and would "participate" in the war (that is a very weak definition of "participate").

I'm not necesarilly inherently opposed to what you're trying to argue - but you must realize that a great deal of things would become undone by this argument. A lot of publicly-funded things that you likely use and rely on.


You must also remember that similar debates have already been waged in the SC for decades, primarily around the "general Welfare of the United States". And these debates have not gone in the favor of "individual freedoms" versus the general welfare of the nation.

And like it or not, abortion in many cases can certainly be argued that it supports the general welfare of the nation. Especially if you want to quantify the costs of caring for a child with a severe and terminal illness vs. aborting that child.


If you REALLY want to debate this, prepare for a can of worms to be opened. And precedence is not on your side.
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Old 07-06-2018, 04:27 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,061 posts, read 44,866,510 times
Reputation: 13718
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanny Goat View Post
https://www.thecut.com/2017/01/misco...arenthood.html They only do about 3 % of abortions.
Read it again. That's not what it says. And even what it does say is doubtful.

Planned Parenthood performs over 328,000 of the 650,000 abortions per year (about 50%) while serving 2.7 million patients a year. Some but not all of its 650 facilities provide abortion services, nationwide. That's a 12% abortion rate. PP is the nation's biggest abortion chain.
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Old 07-06-2018, 04:29 PM
 
9,329 posts, read 4,145,575 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Gallup Poll. May 1-10, 2018. 68% believe abortion should be legal under only certain circumstance (rape, incest, mother's life is at stake, etc.) or illegal altogether. Only 29% believe abortion should be legal under any circumstances.

How Americans Feel About Abortion - Gallup Poll

Digging deeper into the data... Less than half of Americans support abortions conducted when the woman doesn't want the child "for any reason," and there is a sizable falloff in support for this from the first trimester (45%) to the third (20%).
There is nothing in that link that supports the specificity of what you're saying.
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Old 07-06-2018, 04:31 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,061 posts, read 44,866,510 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarallel View Post
There is nothing in that link that supports the specificity of what you're saying.
Read the poll data.
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Old 07-06-2018, 04:41 PM
 
Location: Long Island
57,314 posts, read 26,236,916 times
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Very small percentage done in the 3rd trimester and many are done for significant birth defects, difficult for a poll to reflect the severity of the situation unless they have first hand experience.
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Old 07-06-2018, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
18,058 posts, read 10,360,489 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Read the poll data.
Let's ask the question a little different.

Should we allow a 3rd trimester abortion for a brainless infant who appears to be causing a life threatening reaction in the mother?
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Old 07-06-2018, 05:11 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,061 posts, read 44,866,510 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
Very small percentage done in the 3rd trimester and many are done for significant birth defects, difficult for a poll to reflect the severity of the situation unless they have first hand experience.
I doubt that. Many are done for the sake of convenience. Black women, for example, have a several times higher rate of abortion than White women. There's no scientific data to support the fact that Black babies have a much higher rate of birth defects.

Quote:
"According to the Guttmacher Institute, black women are almost five times more likely than white women to undergo abortions, a difference that has been attributed to black women’s higher rates of unintended pregnancy when compared with white women, mostly because of limited access to reproductive health care services."
https://www.motherjones.com/politics...n-black-women/

Now, consider the last statement: "because of limited access to reproductive health care services." That makes no sense. Black women can get contraceptive services/supplies at the exact same Planned Parenthood facilities where they're getting their abortions, or at one of the likely much closer 14,000+ publicly funded (Title X) Family Planning Clinics, nationwide. That would eliminate the need for having so many abortions in the first place, so why don't they do so?
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Old 07-06-2018, 06:01 PM
 
34,279 posts, read 19,384,355 times
Reputation: 17261
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
I doubt that. Many are done for the sake of convenience.
Uh huh. Because going in for a abortion, scheduling it, showing up, and recovering from it is just so "convenient"

I dont think that word means what you think it means.
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Old 07-06-2018, 06:06 PM
 
11,186 posts, read 6,511,514 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katzpaw View Post
The poll is here:
https://news.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx

60% abortion should be legal in the first three months of pregnancy
28% abortion should be legal in the second three months of pregnancy
13% abortion should be legal in the last three months of pregnancy

But 91% of abortions do occur in the 1st three months - but the anti-abortionists focus on the outliers and rare cases

"Of the 1.6 million abortions performed in the U.S. each year, 91 percent are performed during the first trimester (12 or fewer weeks' gestation); 9 percent are performed in the second trimester (24 or fewer weeks' gestation); and only about 100 are performed in the third trimester (more than 24 weeks' gestation), approximately .01 percent of all abortions performed. "
Fast Facts: U.S. Abortion Statistics | Fox News
There's something in the poll for everyone.

53% oppose abortion on demand during the 1st three months. IOW, it should be illegal for a woman to have an abortion simply because the pregnancy was unintended.
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Old 07-07-2018, 05:59 AM
 
Location: Florida
23,175 posts, read 26,211,073 times
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I've asked this several times when people agree that abortion is OK when because of rape, incest or whatever.
If the whole point of objection is that a baby is being killed, why does it matter who the father is?
I've not yet gotten an answer.
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