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Old 08-18-2018, 01:50 PM
 
2,362 posts, read 778,612 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Rationing. And government-administered like the the VA? That won't be acceptable to Americans.
More like medicare, one of the most popular programs.

Quote:
Perhaps you'd like to take a stab at suggesting how the US can raise an additional $3.2 trillion/year in tax revenue needed to pay for national health care.
No, I won't play your dumb game. I have no use justifying made up numbers.
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Old 08-18-2018, 01:54 PM
Status: "Moldy Tater Gangrene, even before Moscow Marge." (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Dallas, TX
5,790 posts, read 3,601,582 times
Reputation: 5697
If other countries with considerably lower per capital GDP can have universal health care, then why can't the USA?
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Old 08-18-2018, 01:55 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,037 posts, read 44,853,831 times
Reputation: 13718
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
There's the operative phrase. What happens when you're not?
I already said I'd reassess the situation. I'm not going to waste away with a chronic fatal disease.
Quote:
Then why do I pay the same premium as everyone else in my group?
The operative word is group. The groups' risks are assessed. It's why companies with a younger, healthier workforce have lower insurance costs.
Quote:
That's already been debunked. Try again.
No, it has not. Lengthy patents and "formula change" patents are just the tip of the iceberg.
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Old 08-18-2018, 01:59 PM
 
2,362 posts, read 778,612 times
Reputation: 873
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil75230 View Post
If other countries with considerably lower per capital GDP can have universal health care, then why can't the USA?
Even Rwanda has universal health care, the USA has a gdp per capita 30x that of Rwanda. Now while the life expectancy of Rwanda is below that of the USA for obvious reasons, it's better than all her neighbors, none who have universal health care.
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Old 08-18-2018, 01:59 PM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,966,079 times
Reputation: 6059
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Let's see your plan to raise the required $3.2 trillion/year ($32 trillion is the ten year additional cost projected by the Urban Institute). How would you raise that much tax revenue? Remember, employers spent a total of $160 billion on employee health insurance last year. There's a pretty large gap between what they paid and what's needed to fund national health care.

Total US payroll is $6.5 trillion. A 7.5% payroll tax increase (employer + employee) will only raise $487.5 billion in tax revenues. You're still short over $2.7 trillion.
Employers spent $160 billion on employee health care last year? A mere $1000 per employee? You are living in fantasy land.

Urban Institute is anti-single payer but even they say its cheaper than what we pay now, as we currently pay $3.5 trillion, rising to roughly $6 trillion by 2027. Thats 18% of GDP, rising to 20% by 2027. Almost half of that is funded by taxes already. An absurd amount of money in an extremely wasteful system rampant with price gouging and we still leave tens of millions without proper care. There is no reason why we cant have health care costs in line with the rest of the developed world.
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Old 08-18-2018, 02:00 PM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,966,079 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil75230 View Post
If other countries with considerably lower per capital GDP can have universal health care, then why can't the USA?
Germany implemented their universal health care system in the 1880s. Over 130 years ago, when most people were poor peasants.
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Old 08-18-2018, 02:03 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,037 posts, read 44,853,831 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NomadicDrifter View Post
More like medicare, one of the most popular programs.
Medicare uses private providers/services and one must buy supplemental insurance for prescription drug coverage, the 20% co-pay, deductibles, etc. Plus, as already explained, there is no funding to extend Medicare.
Quote:
No, I won't play your dumb game. I have no use justifying made up numbers.
Every numerical fact I've posted is verifiable. Mike can't do it. You can't do it. That's why it won't happen unless the US implements a 25% national VAT tax. But look at how much so many people fight against it. So... national health care won't happen.

Incidentally, the state of Vermont's plan to implement state health care came to a crashing halt because they couldn't solve "the raising enough tax revenue to fund it" problem either.
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Old 08-18-2018, 02:07 PM
 
18,804 posts, read 8,477,217 times
Reputation: 4130
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
Medicare is not socialized health care. Its single payer but its not like the UK and VA where the government runs it. So Medicare-for-all does not mean socialized medicine.
I'm fine with Medicare, as it is socialized enough. Yes it is run, administrated and partly supported/paid for centrally. But the HC is generally delivered by the private sector, and that is how it should be.
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Old 08-18-2018, 02:12 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,037 posts, read 44,853,831 times
Reputation: 13718
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil75230 View Post
If other countries with considerably lower per capital GDP can have universal health care, then why can't the USA?
Americans aren't paying enough taxes to fund it. Here's a comparison of actual effective national tax rates for a typical worker on page 9:

http://www.institutmolinari.org/IMG/...en-eu-2016.pdf
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Old 08-18-2018, 02:13 PM
 
2,362 posts, read 778,612 times
Reputation: 873
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Every numerical fact I've posted is verifiable.
What is verified? That some think-tank came up with that number and you're throwing it around like it's a law of physics. I have no use to debunk some random calculations done by people pushing an agenda.

Here is a simple fact: the US government already spends more per head than the UK does.

Going to a universal health care system will drastically change the landscape of US' healthcare in a way that institute cannot calculate (and probably doesn't want to do). For one, the price of many services and drug prices will be greatly reduced.
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