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We will have to make some compromises as we continue our incremental heading towards more UHC. But to think HC costs will be coming down is absurd. HC costs will rise all over the modern and successful world. With our aging demographics, the costs of new technologies as we can treat and cure more serious maladies, and with more patients gaining access, how can they not?
Japan and Germany have demographics that America wont see until 2050 at least. They spend 11% of GDP on health care and we spend 18% now. We are the outlier in the world with our current system. Not the rest of the world with their more efficient system that focuses on care and treatment and not excessive profits, crazy administrative costs and price gouging.
You are right, we COULD stop doing that, but all we do is keep electing people on both sides of the aisle that think we need to spend kazillions on our military. Its put us into the biggest financial debt this world has ever seen, so no, it makes zero sense at this point to go down the socialized health care path until we can straighten that out. The argument that we are "the richest country" is just absurd...but if we ever do get to that point, then sure, free everything for everyone.
This is exactly what I mean when I say we need more than 2 parties.
One party wants to play aggressive world cop, the other wants to play slightly-less-aggressive world cop while treating illegals like gods and paying accordingly.
A party that wants to actually control costs everywhere? None of the above.
I'm on disability. When I tried to get Medicaid, they said I make too much money. Maybe I should try again. One ting I don't think has been mentioned in tis thread is about the red tape and dumbery involved with Medicare, etc? When I got Medicare after the two year wait, they took money out of my disability for that. I mentioned that to a social worker with my health care provider and he said, "Oh, there's a form you can fill out to stop them from taking the money out." Like why hide the fact that there's a form you can fill out? Or even why take the money out in the first place?
3... 2... 1.... until someone tells me I want my health care for free. Idon't want it for free. I just don't want the two meds I need most to be $700.
So let's take a step back. At the same time they gave me Medicare (which was 23 months after taking away my Medicaid) they took more money out of the disability check (which I need for things like groceries, rent, power, gas, etc.) and somehow insulin costs me more now than it did before.
I hope to get the insulin mess figured out. It has stressed me out so much that I have not tackled it in a week. If that's self-inflicted, so be it. Someone asked if my doctor knows about the insulin issue. Yes, he has known since last Saturday. His response was "insulin is expensive." I need to look, but I believe he changed my insulin. I believe I was on 70/30 I think it is called, but he put me back on insulin.
This is exactly what I mean when I say we need more than 2 parties.
One party wants to play aggressive world cop, the other wants to play slightly-less-aggressive world cop while treating illegals like gods and paying accordingly.
A party that wants to actually control costs everywhere? None of the above.
Couldnt agree more, the two party system appears to be driving many of our problems unfortunately.
No, definitely no waiver for the rich. Wall Street isnt just mad because they have to fund something. They are also mad because they cant get their hands on something. Thats why there is such a relentless push to eliminate Social Security and hand it over to Wall Street. Even though SS has a cap on income subject to SS tax of $127 000 a year. Many of the think tanks we have today were started as part of that effort to eliminate the public safety net. Means testing the public safety net is also a crucial part in creating division and hatred between different groups and classes of people. If the poorest get something and the middle gets nothing, that creates resentment.
Oh I don't mean they don't get taxed. I mean they can opt out and buy whatever HC the private sector has to offer. Or pay cash OOP along the way.
When people are taxed, they should get whatever everyone else is getting. If they dont like it, they can go to the private market if thats what they prefer. All countries with a national health care system have plenty of private options as alternatives.
Really?
Some of the Libertarian/Far Rights on here seem to have the compassion of a crocodile.
The way some of the posters are A-OK with people dying because it might cost them a few cents,
or blaming people because they get sick....it is obnoxious and I am sorry it is totally devoid of any human compassion whatsoever.
I see now why the one Poster from the UK started the thread talking about how mean and hateful most Americans are to one another - This thread and some of the others prove him right.....I am sorry people but you can't even put a price on human life. And it is ridiculous just to opt for more suffering and pain for other humans - because you seem to lack one single empathy Gene in your DNA Make up. (You should check that out...it is usually a sign of mental illness like being a Sociopath or Psychopath...just saying.)
From studies, it looks like it would even cost less to go to single payer/Universal Care...
because you are cutting out the middle men - the Insurance companies. It also gives you more leverage to make the large pharmaceutical Companies lower their prices.
It's worked for all the other Countries....it would work here too, with the right amount of oversight.
And don't throw the Socialist Word at me....England, Ireland, Australia, Japan, Canada etc all have this and they are not socialist countries at all.
You can reduce costs, save lives, save money and you don't want to do it, because "you are being robbed?" Well, they have to have some taxes because you have to pay for the Military,
the Police Departments, the Fire Departments, Infrastructure, Education....It is all part of living in a civilized modern society. And a civilized society doesn't sit around and let people die, when they are capable of saving their lives....only uncivilized barbarians would do that.
That was me who started the thread you mention. Ironically, I discovered a few weeks ago I have cancer of the bladder. After the diagnosis just over two weeks ago, I quickly moved to cat scans, which showed the tumour was confined to my bladder.
I had an operation yesterday to remove it, and am now awaiting results of tests on another patch of 'irregularities' they found on my bladder wall. It could be something, or nothing. I will find out in two weeks.
At times like these, seeing the NHS close up, I cannot express my gratitude enough to the doctors and nurses, and how they have looked after me in my time of need.
I know many Americans are against universal healthcare on principle. I myself have always spoken up for it, and am glad it is there for all the citizens of my country. All I have to worry about is getting well, and not medical bills.
America, and Americans must decide for themselves what they want from their health care. I myself believe all citizens should be cared for. Yes, taxes have to be paid, nothing is free in this life. But this is the way we have done things here since 1948. Nobody argues we should do things in a different manner. Whoever is in government understands the NHS is the best bang for the buck health care wise.
I have read through this thread from the beginning. There is certainly some cruel, hard hearted people in the world, and that's for sure. Lets hope they remain in good health. If not, they may sing a different tune.
That was me who started the thread you mention. Ironically, I discovered a few weeks ago I have cancer of the bladder. After the diagnosis just over two weeks ago, I quickly moved to cat scans, which showed the tumour was confined to my bladder.
I had an operation yesterday to remove it, and am now awaiting results of tests on another patch of 'irregularities' they found on my bladder wall. It could be something, or nothing. I will find out in two weeks.
At times like these, seeing the NHS close up, I cannot express my gratitude enough to the doctors and nurses, and how they have looked after me in my time of need.
I know many Americans are against universal healthcare on principle. I myself have always spoken up for it, and am glad it is there for all the citizens of my country. All I have to worry about is getting well, and not medical bills.
America, and Americans must decide for themselves what they want from their health care. I myself believe all citizens should be cared for. Yes, taxes have to be paid, nothing is free in this life. But this is the way we have done things here since 1948. Nobody argues we should do things in a different manner. Whoever is in government understands the NHS is the best bang for the buck health care wise.
I have read through this thread from the beginning. There is certainly some cruel, hard hearted people in the world, and that's for sure. Lets hope they remain in good health. If not, they may sing a different tune.
English Dave? first off prayers to you with your health situation and hope all of the best for you sir.
I have a family member who is undergoing a cancer diagnosis right now and thankfully Medicaid & Medicare will take care of her bills.
This is stressful enough so I can't even imagine how some people here in the US are opposed to Universal Healthcare.
The stupidity of some Americans is amazing at times.
That was me who started the thread you mention. Ironically, I discovered a few weeks ago I have cancer of the bladder. After the diagnosis just over two weeks ago, I quickly moved to cat scans, which showed the tumour was confined to my bladder.
I had an operation yesterday to remove it, and am now awaiting results of tests on another patch of 'irregularities' they found on my bladder wall. It could be something, or nothing. I will find out in two weeks.
At times like these, seeing the NHS close up, I cannot express my gratitude enough to the doctors and nurses, and how they have looked after me in my time of need.
I know many Americans are against universal healthcare on principle. I myself have always spoken up for it, and am glad it is there for all the citizens of my country. All I have to worry about is getting well, and not medical bills.
America, and Americans must decide for themselves what they want from their health care. I myself believe all citizens should be cared for. Yes, taxes have to be paid, nothing is free in this life. But this is the way we have done things here since 1948. Nobody argues we should do things in a different manner. Whoever is in government understands the NHS is the best bang for the buck health care wise.
I have read through this thread from the beginning. There is certainly some cruel, hard hearted people in the world, and that's for sure. Lets hope they remain in good health. If not, they may sing a different tune.
I am so sorry to hear about your Cancer Dave....Prayers and best wishes your way for a speedy recovery.
Life can be hard enough at times...and going through things like this are traumatic enough, without having to worry about money and losing every thing that you have ever worked for.
English Dave? first off prayers to you with your health situation and hope all of the best for you sir.
I have a family member who is undergoing a cancer diagnosis right now and thankfully Medicaid & Medicare will take care of her bills.
This is stressful enough so I can't even imagine how some people here in the US are opposed to Universal Healthcare.
The stupidity of some Americans is amazing at times.
Thank you. It's been a rollercoaster ride this last two weeks since diagnosis and operation. A real shock to the system. Before in my life, it's always been someone else, and now it's me.
I have stated before I do understand the thinking of some Americans on this issue. They are of independent mind, and believe they are responsible for themselves, and their loved ones. They don't feel responsible for others, and believe they should take care of themselves. Plus others are suspicious of government involvement in health care.
All I know, from reading threads like this one, that America, one way or the other, is already paying more per head than any health system in the world. Something is seriously wrong isn't it?
Surely, if a way can be found to fund health care for all in the US, at a cheaper rate per head, then it needs to be implemented doesn't it? At the moment, the system seems to ensure vast profits for insurance companies, yet leaving some folks ruined financially by ill health.
America is a vast country, and I know a different tax based system would be difficult to bring in nationwide. It must seem daunting to politicians. I am just grateful to the politicians here after the war, who somehow managed to bring the NHS to the people of my country, in very difficult financial circumstances at the time.
It is run efficiently by health professionals. The governments job is to raise the taxes to pay for it, and leave the professionals to ensure each hospital does it's job. It is a massive machine, run in a non profit manner. All tests carried out over the years show it is good value for the money spent on it.
May I say how sorry I am the op of this thread is having such a difficult time getting insulin. Such things are a non issue here. Folks who need insulin get it without charge. Yes, we pay taxes like VAT on top of income taxes. But America already has a sales tax in most States doesn't it? I know it is lower than VAT of course.
But, we have coverage of all citizens, and treatment is free at the point of need. This is the principle the NHS was formed on 70 years ago. At this time in my life, I am just grateful it is there for me, and anyone else who needs it.
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