It's cheaper for them if we die (retired, working, bill)
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But you dont understand the stuff you post as you claim that the reason its so expensive in America is because of the diabetics and that other countries dont have that problem. When you're shown that New Zealand has the same share of diabetics as America, and one of the lowest health care costs in the developed world, you just flee the scene and start ranting about something else. Its ridiculous.
I understand the cost variations, Mike. With ALL of them, trillions of dollars per year in additional tax revenue are needed to fund national health care. Just implement a 25% national VAT tax that solely funds health care, and adjust it upwards or downwards as needed. I already explained to you how/why generating the revenue via income tax wouldn't work. All those other developed countries didn't implement a VAT tax by accident. They needed it to fund their government programs.
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Originally Posted by Crazee Cat Lady I have to have automobile insurance in Kentucky. It is the law.
How is that any different?
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No, you don't. Only those who own an auto need it. A lot of people don't own autos.
I live in Kentucky where Decent Mass Transit is almost non existent. If you want to work, you have to have a car. So....I am sorry....no choice.
I am over sixty, and while I walk some for health, doing it for work would be a bit much at my age....especially in the hot humid weather we are having....and I have a few health problems that would make it impossible.
Really?
Some of the Libertarian/Far Rights on here seem to have the compassion of a crocodile.
The way some of the posters are A-OK with people dying because it might cost them a few cents,
or blaming people because they get sick....it is obnoxious and I am sorry it is totally devoid of any human compassion whatsoever.
I see now why the one Poster from the UK started the thread talking about how mean and hateful most Americans are to one another - This thread and some of the others prove him right.....I am sorry people but you can't even put a price on human life. And it is ridiculous just to opt for more suffering and pain for other humans - because you seem to lack one single empathy Gene in your DNA Make up. (You should check that out...it is usually a sign of mental illness like being a Sociopath or Psychopath...just saying.)
From studies, it looks like it would even cost less to go to single payer/Universal Care...
because you are cutting out the middle men - the Insurance companies. It also gives you more leverage to make the large pharmaceutical Companies lower their prices.
It's worked for all the other Countries....it would work here too, with the right amount of oversight.
And don't throw the Socialist Word at me....England, Ireland, Australia, Japan, Canada etc all have this and they are not socialist countries at all.
You can reduce costs, save lives, save money and you don't want to do it, because "you are being robbed?" Well, they have to have some taxes because you have to pay for the Military,
the Police Departments, the Fire Departments, Infrastructure, Education....It is all part of living in a civilized modern society. And a civilized society doesn't sit around and let people die, when they are capable of saving their lives....only uncivilized barbarians would do that.
I remember that thread, and thinking about it about a handful of posts into this one. The funny thing is, the member who created that thread isn't even particularly liberal, by UK standards. Health care just isn't a political football there the way it is here - everyone is covered, and no one would even dream of having it any other way.
I have a hard time getting angry with the AnCaps over the health care issue. I disagree with them, but at least they are consistent, as opposed to the folks who scream for abortion laws that "protect life," yet don't care about insuring children, or who demand increased military spending while veterans kill themselves in record numbers and some soldiers in active service qualify for food stamps. AnCaps have my grudging respect, if not my approval. The right-wingers do not.
I live in Kentucky where Decent Mass Transit is almost non existent. If you want to work, you have to have a car.
Nope. I've lived in both Louisville and Lexington. No car (by choice). I had no problem working, shopping, etc.
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I am over sixty, and while I walk some for health, doing it for work would be a bit much at my age....especially in the hot humid weather we are having....and I have a few health problems that would make it impossible.
That's why you carefully choose where you live and work, like I did when I didn't want to have a car.
You've proven that you dont, as proven by your irrational rage against the diabetics. And no country fund their health care systems simply through a VAT tax. We already pay more in taxes to fund our current health care system than other countries pay for their entire national health care system. A combination of a small payroll tax to replace the insurance based system and a federal sales tax can easily pay for the same here.
Not if his net worth is $100 million. He has WAY more money than he needs and should give most of it away. Put his money where his mouth is.
Why should one person fund all of America's health care program. It's the duty of all American citizens to do their role. You contribute based on how much you can and what's deemed an acceptable burden for you. This is the pillar of society. You pay taxes to fund society - whether it's public education, police, military, and other essential services.
One of the most essential services is health care. In my eyes, it's more essential than public education (though we can have a spirited debate on that one). The fact is, you have been brainwashed by people smarter than you to support the current system. The current system only benefits the top dogs in the health care business and no one else. It doesn't benefit you unless I'm missing something.
Where do you get your insurance? Through your employer? You scream about "slavery" but I hope you realize that you're a slave to employment just to have health insurance. We in Europe are much more free, we don't fear losing our jobs because we know we will be taken care. Less stress also equals a longer life and better life. Maybe if you had a less stressful and more fulfilled life you wouldn't be so bitter and so inhumane to your fellow man when it comes to ensuring decent health care for all. Your positions are that of an unhappy, unfulfilled person. Greed comes from desperation.
You've proven that you dont, as proven by your irrational rage against the diabetics. And no country fund their health care systems simply through a VAT tax.
Their national VAT taxes are in addition to their income tax, not instead of it. That's what we need to do here in the US if we want national health care, have both. If they can pay it, so can we.You see, they want those programs, so they don't balk at paying the taxes required to fund them. Americans won't pay a 25% national VAT tax. That's why we can't have generous government-provided social programs.
If you can convince Americans to pay a 25% VAT tax in addition to the federal income tax, it will generate enough revenue to fund it. If not, it won't happen.
Perhaps reading this book will help you understand:
Growing Public
Written by yet another economist who explains that the European social democracies were only able to develop the programs they did because they implemented consumption (VAT, sin) taxes that didn't hurt economic growth as much as progressive income taxes, particularly those on capital gains income. European countries needed tax systems that could raise a lot of revenue without hurting economic growth, and only regressive consumption taxes effectively do both.
Then open up your own wallet and cover the costs. Put your money where your mouth is. The fact that the US left-wingers are too stingy to do so is why there are still unmet needs. They should be giving all their money away to meet those needs.
You don't seem to understand: a single-payer plan saves you and I money. Are you one of these people who imagines that you don't pay for the healthcare of others through your insurance premiums, via a grossly inefficient private bureaucracy/command-style economy?
You also misunderstand how government works. We have a process created by the Framers to make these decisions about what we provide for the general welfare. We vote. Sometimes it goes our way, sometimes it does not. You do not get to pick and choose what you're willing to subsidize through your tax dollars. I don't get to say to the warmongering hawk/chickenhawk contingent on the Right: "You want your missile systems and doomsday machines, why don't you pony up and pay for them because they don't benefit me a bit and actually harm mankind?"
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