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Old 09-07-2018, 06:59 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,059 posts, read 44,853,831 times
Reputation: 13718

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Quote:
Originally Posted by texan2yankee View Post
workers do have a say in Bezos' business. workers are free to quit working for his companies at any time. If they feel they are underpaid, they are free to find another employer willing to pay them more for their skill set.
Exactly so.
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Old 09-07-2018, 07:02 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,436,629 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
Workers can ban together anytime they want to create a business and share the profits as they see fit.

Our current system allows this. There are few examples of this happening in practice because it's not human nature outside of small tribal bands to be so fiercely egalitarian...but they do exist.


So, what are YOU doing to start a business with your worker friends? Or do you expect to seize something else that someone else bit and then try to run it?
No. All capital is privatized, if you want to start a business, you need capital. Furthermore a for profit model means the number of industries we can go into without the need to own labor is practically none.

Starting a small business (which is very limited being as the means of production are privately owned) is not the same thing as giving everyone free access to labor.
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Old 09-07-2018, 09:13 AM
 
17,291 posts, read 29,411,909 times
Reputation: 8691
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
No. All capital is privatized, if you want to start a business, you need capital. Furthermore a for profit model means the number of industries we can go into without the need to own labor is practically none.

Starting a small business (which is very limited being as the means of production are privately owned) is not the same thing as giving everyone free access to labor.

Go to a bank and get a loan. Present a business plan.


If there's enough of you and it's a good enough idea then you'll get a loan. BUILD IT YOURSELF(VES). Stop with your excuses. All you want to do is have stuff other people built confiscated and put into *your* hands.


"Giving everyone free access to labor" is a nonsense concept.
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Old 09-07-2018, 09:25 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,222,338 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
Go to a bank and get a loan. Present a business plan.


If there's enough of you and it's a good enough idea then you'll get a loan. BUILD IT YOURSELF(VES). Stop with your excuses. All you want to do is have stuff other people built confiscated and put into *your* hands.


"Giving everyone free access to labor" is a nonsense concept.
I note this over and over but yet all there ever is in reply is these theoretical replies.

Bezo's did NOT build his wealth on his own. He also built it at the expense of the millions of people who did what they were taught their entire lives and saved for their retirement.
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Old 09-07-2018, 11:02 AM
 
1,675 posts, read 577,440 times
Reputation: 490
Quote:
Originally Posted by texan2yankee View Post
workers do have a say in Bezos' business. workers are free to quit working for his companies at any time. If they feel they are underpaid, they are free to find another employer willing to pay them more for their skill set.

They are free to quit and work for another employer who will treat them the same way. Why would other companies pay them more? It is a race to the bottom. The employer has more options: Hire/import foreigners, invest in more machinery/robots, move to another country to pay workers less, and environmental laws are more flexible, etc.
Workers have to take whatever crumbs the employer is willing to pay, the one side is on a higher position and very often abuse it.
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Old 09-07-2018, 11:10 AM
 
1,675 posts, read 577,440 times
Reputation: 490
People are pissing in bottles as they don't have time to go to the bathroom.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCEYkwzk9tw

Last edited by thelogo; 09-07-2018 at 11:19 AM..
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Old 09-07-2018, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,436,629 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
Go to a bank and get a loan. Present a business plan.


If there's enough of you and it's a good enough idea then you'll get a loan. BUILD IT YOURSELF(VES). Stop with your excuses. All you want to do is have stuff other people built confiscated and put into *your* hands.


"Giving everyone free access to labor" is a nonsense concept.
In a society where production is controlled, only a few can gain access to that level of authority. Bank loans won't help people who want to produce freely. And employers have no incentive to give them that freedom as the only goal is personal profit.

Capitalism can't allow everyone to be successful, because there needs to be people to exploit.
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Old 09-07-2018, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,436,629 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelogo View Post
People are pissing in bottles as they don't have time to go to the bathroom.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCEYkwzk9tw
horrifying.
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Old 09-07-2018, 11:30 AM
 
1,675 posts, read 577,440 times
Reputation: 490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
horrifying.

It's an excellent interview. It should be required for every single person in the WORLD to watch.

Last edited by thelogo; 09-07-2018 at 12:01 PM..
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Old 09-07-2018, 11:34 AM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,758,281 times
Reputation: 20674
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelogo View Post
They are free to quit and work for another employer who will treat them the same way. Why would other companies pay them more? It is a race to the bottom. The employer has more options: Hire/import foreigners, invest in more machinery/robots, move to another country to pay workers less, and environmental laws are more flexible, etc.
Workers have to take whatever crumbs the employer is willing to pay, the one side is on a higher position and very often abuse it.
One can always create their own business, eschew technology in favor of employing more people and compensate ( wage and benefit) employees well beyond their current market value in the local economy.

How long might that business model survive?

Most of us are not remotely capable of achieving what Bezos has done.
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