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Then you can't say it was criminally negligent homicide. The same objection you're making to the murder charge would apply to criminally negligent homicide. If it was self-defense, and self-defense negates mens rea, it wouldn't be criminally negligent homicide, either.
It would be if you intended to act in self defense but your negligence caused the whole event by negligently entering the wrong apartment thinking you were in your own apartment shooting an intruder.
Let's flip this around. If Jean had shot Guyger would that be murder, or any other charge? No because he would be intending to shoot an intruder in his apartment and did nothing reckless or negligent that lead to the shooting.
Your position is that Texas murder statute does not consider mens rea (guilty mind) but only actus rues (conduct or action). Intentionally shooting someone is still actus rues, because it doesn't address or answer what the mindset and intent was namely if self defense or defending the life of another person or not.
All criminal law in Texas and every other state requires evidence of a guilty mind or intent to be consider criminal.
No what those lawyers said in effect was they didn't think she intended to act in self defense.
No, they said nothing of the sort. In fact, they made it clear that they expect her to argue something like that, but it's still a murder case, not a manslaughter case.
They said exactly what I've been saying, and in doing so they explicitly referred to facts like shooting a "burglar" and shooting the "bad guy".
It's the first time he's heard of someone intentionally killing someone with a gunshot to the abdomen and being charged with manslaughter instead of murder, because the law says it's murder, not manslaughter.
It would be if you intended to act in self defense but your negligence caused the whole event by negligently entering the wrong apartment thinking you were in your own apartment shooting an intruder.
Stop. Just stop.
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I just linked you to judges, prosecutors, and criminal defense lawyers in Dallas saying that I -- another practicing Texas attorney -- am correct. People who actually prosecute, defend, and judge these cases say there's no doubt that it's murder as opposed to manslaughter.
And ALL of us know the concept of mens rea (guilty mind) much better than you do, and we all know that the concept of self-defense is conceptually subsequent to the determination of what "offense" was committed. It's murder under Texas law, but she can raise defenses like self-defense, and they expect her to do so. And the prosecutor can take the facts giving rise to the defense and decide not to charge, but the prosecutor is wrong to charge this woman with manslaughter because she did not commit that offense.
Last edited by hbdwihdh378y9; 09-16-2018 at 08:06 PM..
So shooting someone in self defense, is regarded as murder in Texas?
An intentional killing is murder, yes. That doesn't mean you will be charged or convicted. You can raise a number of defenses, and if the prosecutor is convinced you have a good defense you probably won't get charged.
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I just linked you to judges, prosecutors, and criminal defense lawyers in Dallas saying that I -- another practicing Texas attorney -- am correct. People who actually prosecute, defend, and judge these cases say there's no doubt that it's murder as opposed to manslaughter.
And ALL of us know the concept of mens rea (guilty mind) much better than you do, and we all know that the concept of self-defense is conceptually subsequent to the determination of what "offense" was committed. It's murder under Texas law, but she can raise defenses like self-defense, and they expect her to do so. And the prosecutor can take the facts giving rise to the defense and decide not to charge, but the prosecutor is wrong to charge this woman with manslaughter because she did not commit that offense.
So since there was no "true" offense to her self defense, is this an open and shut case, and if she doesnt get convicted the prosecutor obviously threw the case?
An intentional killing is murder, yes. That doesn't mean you will be charged or convicted. You can raise a number of defenses, and if the prosecutor is convinced you have a good defense you probably won't get charged.
Which is exactly my point and most likely why she is being charged with manslaughter and not murder. Her defense is she was acting in self defense, and the evidence supports that so she was not charged with murder. She was considered reckless though so was charged with manslaughter.
An intentional homicide is not murder until it is charged and convicted.
Looks like they found police equipment in his apartment. Wonder if it was hers. Case gets odder by the day.
I assumed it was her equipment she was wearing and carrying when she walked in and she took it off after the shooting. If she took it off in the dark before the shooting that would be even more odd.
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