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This thread has more Russian trolls than virtual Trump rally. Hint for all of the Russians on this thread impersonating Americans - yep, looking at you, you, and you - Americans aren’t as knowledgeable about NATO as you’re portraying. True Americans don’t know or care about it. For the one or two real Americans on this thread, Russia would absolutely hate Fort Trump in Poland, which is why the Putin puppet in chief won’t let it happen.
Poland want US military base says it could be called Fort Trump.
Great idea! But only IF Trump is made permanent commander of of Camp Trumpski and is shipped off to Poland to run it! Have a kielbasa snowflake!
No, the world hates trump!
No country will seek to partner with us due to Trump's isolationist policies.
Poland is proof!
At least when Russia invaded crimea, Obama send rations and blankets. The world loved Obama, especially Putin whom Obama defended in a debate with Mitt. .
Obama reneged on the promise made to Poland to install defensive missiles just to please Putin
Trump is considering an air base much to Putin's objection.
In Polish history, unification and sovereignty in a ethnic-Polish state are very recent developments. Germany and Russia are two of the countries that divided Poland.
Germany may ask the U.S. to leave. The E.U. may sanction the U.S. with not allowing any military installations within the union. Also they may make peace with Putin for a little while to play off Trump, until he is replaced by a friendlier president.
Germany is in no position to ask the US for anything. They have 36 military bases just in their country, plus there are more bases in Spain, Italian, Belgium, Britain just to name a few.
It doesn't matter who the president is, the EU has no choice, they are subordinate. That is why when they US says you have to impose sanctions on country X they say, "Yes, Sir".
The EU will continue to weaken and Poland will be made strong because the strongest military wants it so*. That's what is it all about: Money & Power.
*I know Poland is part of the EU, but in name only so they can have some privileges. In reality they don't follow EU norms.
Well since no one would notice best to pull them all out. I think its in America's best interest to not be involved everywhere like it is. It creates animosity and is a big reason why the muslim extremists what to attack us. On top of it we really don't have the money.
Of course we aren't going to notice beyond three or four countries which are Germany which has 35,000 US Forces of which 20,000 are Army, however there is only one combat brigade, the rest is support including a massive military hospital, logistics/transport/ air re-fuelling facility at Ramstein, Intelligence facilities etc.
Italy which has around 12,000 US Military personnel of which 4,000 are Army, Italy being a major US Naval facility. The US Navy has nearly 4,000 personnel in Italy and the USAF a similar figure.
The UK which has 9,000 US Military Personnel of which 8,500 are USAF including intelligence. However this figure is going to be cut by 3,000 when RAF Mildenhall closes. The UK became home to more US Military Personnel when France ordered the closure of all US Military bases back in the 1960's, and the UK is also a major intelligence hub for the US.
Spain also hosts major US Naval facilities and of the 3,600 US personnel based in Spain, nearly 2,500 are US Navy and around 700 are US Marines.
The rest of Europe ranked by number of US Military Personnel -
Belgium has 928 US Miliitary Personnel
The Netherland has 415 US Military Personnel
Romania has 415 US Military Personnel
Greece has 394 US Military Personnel
Norway has 356 US Military Personnel
Portugal has 238 US Military Personnel
Hungary has 209 US Military Personnel
Poland has 148 US Military Personnel permanenty based there, although NATO currently has rotating forces in Polans has part of on-going operations.
The rest of Europe has virtually no US Military, however there are a further 642 US Military Personnel dedicated to other duties in Europe. It also should be noted that the figures above include Embassy Guards, US Coastguard and other such tasks.
So whoop-de-doo, in fact the UK has more military in Canada and the US than the US has in the majority of European countries.
If you want to withdraw and to stop being able to use European facilities other than by written request and with renewed oversight then go for it and see what happens when you try to project military strength or gather intelligence. At the moment US NATO bases have very little oversight and you are free to use them as you wish, and you can use airspace and naval support as you wish due to NATO.
I will offer a note of caution to some Americans that many Europeans are becoming sick and tired of Trump, that they are indeed talking about Post Atlanticism and even forming new alliances including a Permanent Structured Cooperation (PESCO) and European Intervention forces, however the Germans and French are pushing for more with German politicians even suggesting a military that is independent of the US, that will allow Europe to call American foreign policy in to account.
This is all backed by polls with Germans actually voting in favour of US Forces leaving, something which hasn't happened since the 1960's when France closed all US Military bases in the country.
Whilst as I have pointed out if NATO didn't exist it would be very easy for Europeans to get their own back on people like Trump by refusing US Military use of any facilities or stopping US Ships from even docking at ports etc. US Operations such as those in the Middle East, Iraq, Afganistan and other parts of the world would become far more problematic, as would military projection generally and intelligence gathering.
The US seems to be confused over the issue, which is you leave and Europe develops it's own independent defence pact or you stay and we continue with NATO. You can't threaten countries with withdrawing from NATO and bot honouring Artcicle 5 and then become suprised and concerned when they increasingly ake alternative plans.
Yes, pointless, NATO nor article 5 needed to form a joint coalition, just as happened with the Iraq War, and our Pacific posturing which has no NATO type alliance.
You can form a quick military alliance in response to aggression without the costly and bureaucratic overhead NATO has.
NATO is a racket, they had zero military engagement during the Cold War, and they have had four since as they need something to do, an excuse to continue existing. Tell me, what threat did Libya have that warranted NATO action? Bosnia? None, zero, yet NATO, needing a mission, interjected itself.
An opinion unsupported by actual events and facts. Also fails to address why YOUR nation is the only one to ever have invoked article 5.
I would not use the Iraq debacle as an example of the forming of another coalition a fait-accompli. I would opine that might face some difficulty.
The EU is like a child that needs protection from the bully Putie Put.
They're to stupid to protect themselves, that's why they let in millions of people who hate them, rob and rape them all on the safety net incomes.
Poland is one of the exceptions and Fort Trump has got a nice sound to it.
Europe is Europe's problem as would be any aggression by Russia against them. We did enough rebuilding their countries after WW2 and cleaning up the mess they made. As well as all the assistance since then. Time to bring the troops home not expand on it because Poland is trying to kiss Trump's behind. If we want to be a token member of NATO and it does not cost us anything fine.
I thought that bringing troops home was something Trump brought up during his campaign and Trumpers supported. Now if they name a base after Trump suddenly lets reverse course and add more bases overseas. Fort Ivanka, Fort Trump Jr. It is easy to see what would sway Trump on this. And his minions apparently.
Uh, uh; so pointless the U.S. relied upon it as the only country to ever invoke it's charter.
Quote from a writer for the resurgent site: “The only time NATO has ever invoked Article 5 and rushed to the aid of a NATO ally in response to an attack was on September 11, 2001.”
Erickson rips Trump supporters a new *******:
“Donald Trump wants to turn NATO into a damn shakedown scheme and you people are cheering him on. You should be ashamed of yourselves. You should be ashamed of the fact that your cult leader who claims to have been personally affected by 9/11 does not even know our NATO allies protected his ass that day. You should be ashamed that he wants to turn one of the strongest military alliances in the history of the world into a racket where protection is bought. You should be ashamed that you are not ashamed.”
How exactly did NATO protect us on 9/11 by invoking Article 5? It was a terror attack not a military attack from another nation. The conspirators who attacked us on our soil were dead. Do you think Bin Laden in his Afghan cave was overcome with fear because Article 5 was invoked?
Come on. It was just a symbolic move. Like flying a flag at half staff. And for this we owe NATO something? You can't be serious.
How exactly did NATO protect us on 9/11 by invoking Article 5? It was a terror attack not a military attack from another nation. The conspirators who attacked us on our soil were dead. Do you think Bin Laden in his Afghan cave was overcome with fear because Article 5 was invoked?
Come on. It was just a symbolic move. Like flying a flag at half staff. And for this we owe NATO something? You can't be serious.
NATO deployed AWACS to free up US Aircraft and helping to patrol the US Skies, if the US had needed any further military support it could have requested assistance. European intelligence services also helped supplied the US with intel, as did US Intel bases in Europe.
By 2013, the War on Terror had cost the UK alone around £37 Billion ($50 Billion) or £2,000 ($2,650) per UK household, with 635 UK service prsonnel killed and many thousands terrible maimed and injured.
Other NATO members also had significant deaths and injuries relating to Afghanistan and the War on Terror.
The US extensvely used NATO bases to support US Operations in Iraq and Afghanistan as part of the War on Terror.
The US Hospital at Landstuhl (LMRC) in Germany is where most badly injured US Military Persnnel were treated, indeed more than 95,000 Wounded US Personnel from Afghanistan and Iraq have been treated at LRMC since 2001, as they made their way through the medical evacuation system back home.
US Bases in Europe also were essetial to supplying US Forces, in providing intelligence and in communications, as well as in supporting naval activity, refuelling aircraft and numerous other essential activities.
Last edited by Brave New World; 09-20-2018 at 09:19 AM..
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