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The fact that you believe notorious gangsters like Capone and Gotti and our current president are in the same league kind of proves my point. In your mind, this man is an arch criminal, when in reality he's just a normal Washington crook, doing business with all the rest of the typical Washington crooks. ...
There is no such thing as a "normal Washington crook".
The fact you think so reveals a seriously flawed bias. Corruption and criminality does exist to varying degrees everywhere, inside but especially outside of Washington. That is why the SDNY has so much expertise with regard to uncovering crime and fighting it. Their portfolio is always full of cases ... they are our nation's best in that regard.
You should note that I did not state anywhere that they are "in the same kind of league". I merely used them as an analogy to demonstrate that nefarious people can be popular, and do things the common folks would like them for.
Trump? He was a known commodity well before he ran for office. One does not have to 'hate' a person to decide that he is not suitable for public office. Trump had his 'chance' long ago, and he was found lacking then, nothing he has done or said since has made him seem more suitable and people are on to him.
Trump came across as a racist POS (as with all birthers) from day one.
That is true.
I always found it interesting that both Trump and Obama had one foreign born parent, but it is the one with darker skin people want to believe was born outside of the USA. The one with lighter skin perpetrated the hoax.
Setting aside Trump's well know lack of moral quality and honesty, the fact that anyone would vigorously promote a hoax of any kind in such a public way disqualifies him for public office, regardless of his motivation for doing so. The man has no character, he is not a man of quality.
It is ironic that the people who believed (many still do) Trump's lies are the one's most devoted to him. Trump lies the most to the people who love him, trust him and defend him the most ... quite a paradox ... it seems like some variant of Stockholm syndrome.
I can certainly understand why those who support Trump's agenda are willing to overlook that he breaks a few laws here and there, that he is just a "normal Washington crook."
With the support of a Republican Congress, Trump's agenda has given us a huge increase in the federal deficit, fewer people with health insurance, federal agencies that are compromised by incompetent leadership, and two men on the Supreme Court -- Gorsuch who has been a corporate shill for decades and Kavanaugh who appears to be an emotionally labile political hack put there to protect Trump.
I don't view any of their agenda as boding well for the future of our nation.
However, what I am impressed by is that Trump has made it clear we need to wake up, step up, and decide what we want for the future of our nation.
Do we want a nation ruled by corporate crooks or the rule of law?
The fact that you believe notorious gangsters like Capone and Gotti and our current president are in the same league kind of proves my point. In your mind, this man is an arch criminal, when in reality he's just a normal Washington crook, doing business with all the rest of the typical Washington crooks. One sided media coverage and celebrity hate are two of the biggest reasons why many Americans (perhaps not you, but many) do not like the president. You ask why I think I know things about the president others do not. Well, the answer to that is because I encounter people nearly every day who can tell me nothing about the actual Trump presidency. Oh, they can discuss Russia collusion or Stormy Daniels all day long, because their news sources are saturated with that and nothing else. But as far as the real meat of what Trump has done in the White House....they got nothing. So that's why I feel I know things about President Trump that other's don't know. Personal experience.
However, with all that being said, please don't misunderstand me. I am not suggesting that he isn't responsible for some of his problems. But I'm sorry, there are millions upon millions of Americans who are supportive of the president's agenda, and the fact that most of the media ignores accomplishments which his supporters would consider to be successes more than shows the bias in the media. Because if they were unbiased, they'd be reporting everything. But most do not. Only the bad and the ugly are reported, never the good. Of course, good to a supporter may not seem good to you, but does that change the fact that they deserve to hear news that they would consider positive. All bad news all the time simply means they are reporting news that only one group of people want to hear, while ignoring the other side of the debate. That's not journalism.
And as for the text I placed in bold print, I'd say your answer is true for both sides. For Trump supporters, the negative does not outweigh the positive. For those against him, the bad outweighs the good. It just doesn't balance out either side.
He wasn't a Washington crook until he was actually elected
He was a regular crook in a huge way
Due to all the people he has defrauded--Trump University, Atlantic City bankruptcy, his defunct football league, his over-priced condos sold around the world
Not to mention the money-laundering efforts with Russians and others
Trump is a more successful criminal than Capone or Gotti who never had a prime time tv show extolling their personal business method which involved backstabbing and merchandising himself...
Capone if you can believe some of the stories about him loved culture and gave to the poor of Chicago
Trump's only charity is himself and his interest in culture is limited to Fox News
Your reference to Trump's supporters and their belief in his successes, I grant you...
But that is true for any politician, entertainer, athlete, successful business person...
Liberal or conservative....
There were Germans who went to their graves (early or later in life) believing Hitler was betrayed
There were Republicans who thought Nixon wasn't "that bad"...
And Democrats who took the Kennedys' penchant for affairs as a minor price to pay for their political aims
Southerners who still love Jefferson Davis...
What does that prove but people ignore reality for their own self-delusional perspective?
The fact is that there are conservative media sources that do tout Trump's WH as a positive factor
The fact is that Trump won on electoral count--not popular vote--ergo there are more people who voted for HRC than Trump...
He had the fewest number of newspaper endorsements from ALL states than any other main party presidential runner than ANY modern era president...
That alone should tell any reasonable person he is viewed with distrust for his abilities to function effectively
Don't blame liberal media for reporting facts that hurt Trump or his minions re their political skills and moral failings...
There were plenty of negative/critical stories re Clinton and Obama
And Bush 1 and 2
Trump is not the only Republican prez to be criticized
The fact that Trump is at war with the press that he expected to,show only love is part of his narcissistic behavior psychosis
The fact that there is SO much to find fault with comes from a cadre of people who are politically inept nd morally endangered...
See any bad stories about Elaine Chao?
No
Why?
Because 1--she has been in this job before, knows how to behave rationally and effectively
2--doesn't inflame the press by being self-aggrandizing and frankly stupid like others in the Cabinet
3--has contacts in the media from her past history and McConnell's
4--not saying she doesn't know how to use this post to her advantage but she is just better at it than someone like Zinke or Pruitt or DeVos...c
He wasn't a Washington crook until he was actually elected
He was a regular crook in a huge way
Due to all the people he has defrauded--Trump University, Atlantic City bankruptcy, his defunct football league, his over-priced condos sold around the world
Not to mention the money-laundering efforts with Russians and others
Trump is a more successful criminal than Capone or Gotti who never had a prime time tv show extolling their personal business method which involved backstabbing and merchandising himself...
Capone if you can believe some of the stories about him loved culture and gave to the poor of Chicago
Trump's only charity is himself and his interest in culture is limited to Fox News
Your reference to Trump's supporters and their belief in his successes, I grant you...
But that is true for any politician, entertainer, athlete, successful business person...
Liberal or conservative....
There were Germans who went to their graves (early or later in life) believing Hitler was betrayed
There were Republicans who thought Nixon wasn't "that bad"...
And Democrats who took the Kennedys' penchant for affairs as a minor price to pay for their political aims
Southerners who still love Jefferson Davis...
What does that prove but people ignore reality for their own self-delusional perspective?
The fact is that there are conservative media sources that do tout Trump's WH as a positive factor
The fact is that Trump won on electoral count--not popular vote--ergo there are more people who voted for HRC than Trump...
He had the fewest number of newspaper endorsements from ALL states than any other main party presidential runner than ANY modern era president...
That alone should tell any reasonable person he is viewed with distrust for his abilities to function effectively
Don't blame liberal media for reporting facts that hurt Trump or his minions re their political skills and moral failings...
There were plenty of negative/critical stories re Clinton and Obama
And Bush 1 and 2
Trump is not the only Republican prez to be criticized
The fact that Trump is at war with the press that he expected to,show only love is part of his narcissistic behavior psychosis
The fact that there is SO much to find fault with comes from a cadre of people who are politically inept nd morally endangered...
See any bad stories about Elaine Chao?
No
Why?
Because 1--she has been in this job before, knows how to behave rationally and effectively
2--doesn't inflame the press by being self-aggrandizing and frankly stupid like others in the Cabinet
3--has contacts in the media from her past history and McConnell's
4--not saying she doesn't know how to use this post to her advantage but she is just better at it than someone like Zinke or Pruitt or DeVos...c
Calm down. Trump didn't defraud ANYONE with his Atlantic City casinos. His investors lost money but that's a far cry from defrauding. The research on his casinos was out there for all to see -- reports were written in the Wall Street Journal about how Trump would never be able to make the payments on his Taj Mahal casino and about how the entire market was oversaturated. No sympathy from me for people who didn't do their homework. USFL - same thing -- it wasn't fraud that brought down the USFL it was a bad business idea. Overpriced condos.... buyer & a seller on every transaction -- free market -- doesn't make it fraudulent. Trump University -- I'll give you - it was sleazy although I'm not sure it's any more sleazy or fraudulent than big universities selling worthless 4 year degrees in things like basket weaving.
You don't seem to know much about the business world.
Due to all the people he has defrauded--Trump University, Atlantic City bankruptcy, his defunct football league, his over-priced condos sold around the world
Not to mention the money-laundering efforts with Russians and others
...
Your reference to Trump's supporters and their belief in his successes, I grant you...
But that is true for any politician, entertainer, athlete, successful business person...
Liberal or conservative....
There were Germans who went to their graves (early or later in life) believing Hitler was betrayed
There were Republicans who thought Nixon wasn't "that bad"...
And Democrats who took the Kennedys' penchant for affairs as a minor price to pay for their political aims
Southerners who still love Jefferson Davis...
What does that prove but people ignore reality for their own self-delusional perspective?
...c
Good points.
Many people are just not that upset about a President's sexual shenanigans. They just aren't. JFK's didn't bother them. Thought it was ridiculous the way Republicans got their panties in a wad over Clinton lying about a consensual blow job. As luck would have it, neither lying nor extra-marital activities seems to bother Republicans these days.
However, rump has defrauded a lot of people over the years, and those folks won't be ignoring reality.
The rest are likely in it for the long haul. They'll be wearing their red MAGA caps proudly long after Trump has been confined to the dustbins of history.
Many people are just not that upset about a President's sexual shenanigans. They just aren't. JFK's didn't bother them. Thought it was ridiculous the way Republicans got their panties in a wad over Clinton lying about a consensual blow job. As luck would have it, neither lying nor extra-marital activities seems to bother Republicans these days.
However, rump has defrauded a lot of people over the years, and those folks won't be ignoring reality.
The rest are likely in it for the long haul. They'll be wearing their red MAGA caps proudly long after Trump has been confined to the dustbins of history.
No, many of his points are not good points at all. He is confusing 'fraud' with 'bad business decisions'.
Re-read post 211 if necessary.
Calm down. Trump didn't defraud ANYONE with his Atlantic City casinos. His investors lost money but that's a far cry from defrauding. The research on his casinos was out there for all to see -- reports were written in the Wall Street Journal about how Trump would never be able to make the payments on his Taj Mahal casino and about how the entire market was oversaturated. No sympathy from me for people who didn't do their homework. USFL - same thing -- it wasn't fraud that brought down the USFL it was a bad business idea. Overpriced condos.... buyer & a seller on every transaction -- free market -- doesn't make it fraudulent. Trump University -- I'll give you - it was sleazy although I'm not sure it's any more sleazy or fraudulent than big universities selling worthless 4 year degrees in things like basket weaving.
You don't seem to know much about the business world.
I know a grifter when I see one
Which is why I didn't vote for Trump
Just because his Trump University suit was civil vs criminal doesn't make it any less fraudulent--
Just because HUD sued him and his father on civil vs criminal charges, doesn't mean they weren't guilty of deliberate racist policies in discriminating against minority renters
You don't seem to understand that the threshold for proving criminal vs civil is higher
And that criminal justice will often take the easier path when facing an entity that has lot of money and influence...which is why Don Jr and Ivana were dropped from the SoHo fraud suit before the election...
Another example you may be familiar with is that OJ was found guilty when sued successfully by the Brown and Goldman families for the same crime he was judged innocent of in criminal court...
Do you think that because OJ won a """not guilty" verdict that he didn't kill those people???
Trump is a crook...
Bernie Madoff had decades of success with his pyramid scheme of "successful" investing
He was "reviewed" by the SEC and skated by w/o his fraud being discovered--partly because he had such a good reputation and did business with lot of important people
Anyone who invests in the market "should" realize that it is impossible to really turn out that successful a history of returns--
But just as with Trump's acolytes refusing to acknowledge his weaknesses and dangerous practices,
Madoff's clients were too happy with their returns to question the man behind them until it was too late...
Re the football league situation--
I read an article during the campaign that analyzed that failure in some detail--
It happened a long time ago--at the time I really didn't care that much and didn't pay attention to its intricacies...the article went into some detail to show that it was Trump's actions rather than any outside market conditions that really prevented that business proposition from being more successful...
In TX we have seen similar thing with George Bush the younger's business acumen--
He has none
He has either been the face of a successful company (TX Rangers) w/o any real power or his bad business decisions have been "saved" by having his father's wealthy friends "invest" in companies he has driven in the ground...
Nothing I can say about Trump will make any of his cultists change their minds
That takes a process that is way too intensive to happen via the Internet...
Calm down. Trump didn't defraud ANYONE with his Atlantic City casinos. His investors lost money but that's a far cry from defrauding. The research on his casinos was out there for all to see -- reports were written in the Wall Street Journal about how Trump would never be able to make the payments on his Taj Mahal casino and about how the entire market was oversaturated. No sympathy from me for people who didn't do their homework. USFL - same thing -- it wasn't fraud that brought down the USFL it was a bad business idea. Overpriced condos.... buyer & a seller on every transaction -- free market -- doesn't make it fraudulent. Trump University -- I'll give you - it was sleazy although I'm not sure it's any more sleazy or fraudulent than big universities selling worthless 4 year degrees in things like basket weaving.
You don't seem to know much about the business world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerGeek40
No, many of his points are not good points at all. He is confusing 'fraud' with 'bad business decisions'.
Re-read post 211 if necessary.
If you're confusing fraud with poor business decisions, then I know more about the business world than you do.
Regardless of that pointless pissing match, ask some of these guys if Trump is a ********* or not. Or are you going to call USA Today & the WSJ part of that liberal MSM machine? LOL
You guys are backing a sleazeball, but you sold your soul to win this sport.... for shame.
Just in case I'm wrong about you, please see the definition of fraud below:
"Wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain." - signing a contract to pay someone and then not paying them per the terms of said contract would be defined in any context as deception.
Edit to add: How is fraud-ster a bad word?! - it's a well known phrase in accounting circles, i.e. someone who engages in fraud.
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