Being poor in America is a choice, 95% of the time (racist, treason)
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"Good paying jobs" are EARNED. EARN them. And education in the US won't improve until we get rid of the stranglehold teachers unions have on public education.
I'm going to educate you as to the institutional racism ever present in the US public school system, courtesy of teachers unions' demands...
Percent of 12th grade students of each race/ethnicity who are proficient or above, by race/ethnicity group:
Does anyone really wish to assert that Hispanic or Black students are actually that much less intelligent than White students? Or is it far more likely that our country's public K-12 education system is the largest, most wide-spread form of institutional racism there is in the U.S.?
BTW, it isn't a funding issue. Many school districts (e.g., Camden, NJ, Washington, DC, etc.) spend $20,000+ per student per year and still yield abysmal results.
First off, I am NOT AGAINST UNIONS.... !!!! You always want to blame the lowest level of society, you might want to learn more facts about what is disparities in education. Then investigate the truth of variables that contribute to those disparities. At no time will I state that White kids, Asian kids are smarter than Hispanic and Blacks. What you fail to grasp is many things, even during Jim Crow, Asian were not relegated to the same things that blacks and Hispanic were, they did not go to segregated black schools, yes they had challenges and levels of discrimination, but they also had patronage to their business by the white society which had the financial means during those periods of Jim Crow.
There is cultural impacts from the era of Jim Crow Segregation. Including how schools were functioning, at some points minorities only got books after white schools had worn them out and got new editions. During Segregation, the methods of teaching in the black schools, gave and had a level of "interactive process", that was not present when schools integrated. I went to a schools that was integrated in a part of the country when southern schools were still segregated, I also went to segregated schools, before and after that time, as well as graduated from integrated schools... Even then I noted the difference in the curriculum, as well as the attributes present and not present....and those that were present in the years prior to graduation. That's information you don't know...
Asian Culture was not a culture of "free speech", nor was it a culture of "free thinking", they were "tradition based", and that was based on their historical culture as a ethnic cultural people. the history of Asian educational culture was rooted in "rote memorization", not so much in free speaking, free thinking which did not lend itself to innovative creating thinking. Their culture was about fitting in, it was not about one rising up, it was about how they adhered to group tradition.
Now, go and look at black culture, which was overtly repressed and systematically suppressed, and it became more overt in the historical attempts to merge and meld with general white society and the systems that were dominated by white society. If you think those things don't matter, it because you don't care to see, know or understand how it matters, not how it translates over time.
You also ignore the fact that its been ONLY 54+ yrs since the Civil Rights Act of 1964, and after that Act it was 1971 before school integration spread nation wide. Then, it became a system where the exodus from public schools did a white flight into private schools as a form of creating new dynamics for segregationist programming. The advances of Education were promoted in Private Schools, while public schools were stuck in the educational structures that were as much relative to pre-industrial and the industrial age...up to the 1940 and maybe some had up to the 1950, and the more prominent public schools advanced up to the 1960's, 1970's formats in Educational programming. What was stripped away was cultural programs, in-depth studies in Civics Based Education. What else that you seem not to know, is the grooming tract that was of limited trajectory in poor communities, which was as well with its limits in poor communities whether they were black or whites. All one has to do is look at the fields that poor white and poor blacks occupy and it tells the story of what was within the perspective trajectory. when one considers that in detail, one also has to be aware of how limitations go far and beyond, including impacts on the esteem of person, as well as the esteems in learning.
THEN.. compound that with the Ronald Reagan acts to de-fund higher education, and impose prohibitive cost on community colleges and State Universities, this impacted and intensified the limited trajectory of the poor. Add in the Exodus of Industry for those on the upper levels of the poor, who were once able to groom the kids for a elevated trajectory via community college, and state universities. Which became a path more available to the lower middle class, which became the level it was more accessible to, which replaced the accessibility for the upper levels of the poor. These are Facts... of Factors that often time people who come from your line and angle of approach neglect to consider or factor into your equations.
In 54 yrs the % of blacks and Hispanic who have elevated themselves, is far higher than centuries of poor whites who had accessibility by skin color, but were entrapped by economics and social condition and stigma, have not kept pace with the blacks and Hispanic.... because well to do white society, will not give fair play to poor whites that are stigmatized as poor whites, and only because of the laws will they give blacks and Hispanic accessibility to opportunity, and then only if they are three times more qualified by skill and experience above the average well to do whites society persons.
A minority of a poor white person with a Masters Degree from any College/University.. will not be considered or regarded even with equality to a well to do white person with a BA, BS degree from a well known or marquee college/university.
I've written a lot of this stuff, but either the thread was deleted that contained it or the post itself was deleted, even after it received reputation points, 10 posting disappeared in the past day or so. I have no idea why... but it just a fact that its no longer there.
Collectively, I've been speaking about these variables for a very long time, and I do the research to back up what I write.... I address the elements as if relates to poor whites and minorities, how ethnicity and race ignorance persist in American society, and the impacts it has. It is a construct, that is designed to create and sustain a defeat cycle of divide and conquer, and that has long been targeted at and upon the poor, both black and white, but the fact is... until poor white society realize, there is no rise for them, until they embrace equality and diversity so "all" especially in the category of "The Poor" rise together.
Last edited by Chance and Change; 01-02-2019 at 06:10 PM..
I've lived in the real world and know this. There are some truly needy people in society, but it's a very small number, maybe 5%. The rest are just lazy or stupid. You wouldn't believe the number of Americans who turn down opportunities for higher paying jobs because "I don't want to work longer hours" or "It's not located in a trendy city."
Let me give an example. I know someone who works 2 part-time minimum-wage jobs and is a Bernie Sanders supporter. His mom told me that 1 of his jobs recently offered him a promotion to be a salaried manager. He turned it down because he is afraid that he might have to work longer shifts if he has a full-time job. Now of course he'll vote Bernie Sanders and complain that we all need to redistribute wealth to him because there are no good jobs available.
By the way, did you know that having a car loan is a choice? Most poor people don't know that.
You forgot to cite your statistical sources for your "facts." Or are you just trying to get people to hate people for having less than others?
Brilliant post! You are absolutely correct. We are at a point where funding these programs are financial suicide. I find it ironic that so many restaurants are concerned that the food that they are serving is sustainable yet nobody ever talks about financial sustainability? Why?
One of my hobbies is traveling to various parts of the world and I don't shy away from third world countries that are steeped in poverty. They don't have programs or handouts like they do here in the US. But somehow everybody bands together and people survive. I then ask why is the US so special? Why are we entitled when so much of the world isn't? Is this fair? I say no it's not.
I am a fiscal conservative. It's not that I'm heartless, I just say let's let the chips fall as they may and wrap our minds around the fact that not everybody is the same. It's ok for poor folks to be poor...even in the US.
The alternative ie borrowing money and paying interest on top of it, will drive us all of the cliff sooner than later.
Well that's quite a hobby, observing people who are steeped in poverty trying to survive. You claim they don't get "handouts", so apparently aren't aware that the OECD reports that member nations sent 146.6 billion in aid to developing countries? Do you know how much food and medical aid is sent to developing countries every year? And for the ones who aren't recipients of that aid, a significant number die, either as malnourished infants or they die as young adults of preventable diseases.
The result of just not doing anything and letting the poor figure it out for themselves as you seem to suggest is not great..
It's a nice story but I'm not buying it, people who can't feed their own families have no ability to just band together in happy little groups and somehow survive. And yes, if you truly believe your own rhetoric you are heartless.
Has it dawned on anyone that the people with the money, who send their kids to the big money schools, have the high paying jobs already "earmarked" for their Pampered Children..... they network with other corporate people, and since they often want to get around Nepotism, they hire each other's and their friends kids....
It's a big part of why we have such Horrible Corporate Decisions... many of the people in the top seats, never really worked for anything, some never even cleaned their own rooms, and many left home where someone did the laundry, they went to school with a credit card or a few, or a trust fund and they spent their summer working in their parents friends and associate firms in an office setting, doing not much of anything, other than showing up... and run a few errands.
Its as true in a big city as it is in small towns... Every town has their elite families.... Of the 10's of thousands of kids coming from well to do and wealthy families, go into the high paying jobs... families who have town or city recognition has an assurance by their associations and relations that their kids do not have to work an average pay job... so the actual available slots for "high pay"... is not open to the general public. One would have to have outstanding credentials and skills, and still they will end up working "under" one of these "silk carpet riders"....
If one look at the Median Income Range, of any city... Many people from non marquee universities and colleges may earn close to Median Income and a great many end up using their degree like a "get a job certificate'... if one looks at the job posting, which calls for a degree, or comparable experience, when fact it, they go after the degree long before they consider those with experience....
We've all seen people with degree, who don't have the work motivation or the work ethic's of people who actually perform higher labor intensive jobs. We've seen people put in position that make horrible decisions.
After 4 yrs of learning how to be submissive to the professor for a grade, many come into the work force looking for people with name recognition and go into submission and name dropping, as their way of moving about. As long as they pander to the name... they get the less intensive work duties.
If University Graduates was a sign of high progressive ethnics, we'd have more innovation, people would have learned the people skills and they'd be aware that it is the people who do the intensive labor that actually makes the job function.
Many people in the title roles have poor budget management skills, they focus more on how to strip something to come in under budget with hopes to get a bonus for "diminishing the quality standards and over burdening the workforce".
We will "never" return to the products of the 1940's and 1950's that had a durable standard of quality, and even were repairable for longevity.
How many things can anyone name that has lived up to "Advertising Hype".... even "services" fall far short of what's advertised and after the advertising teaser, comes the reduction in services, followed by the fee based on getting what was previously advertised.
How often do people get something from a bank... changing the terms of a checking account"... of some type of services, sending out a notice of what they will "no longer provide".. This is the game taught to the Degree Riders who chases a bonus and name recognition and will craft any kind of policy that is designed to fleece the consumer, so they can get a raise and/or bonus and a pat on the back with a new title.
Every since "degrees' became more important than the skilled laborer... Everything in America has declined.
In the 1940's and even in the 1960's people with BA and BS degree, actually specialized in something they were dedicated to, and had concern about the field they chose and had more concern about improving the field's work production or innovation for better functions.... Many today, switch majors a number of times, looking for low impact high credit classes, only to get to the magical number of credits that provide the Degree Certificate.
Even in the Medical Field, all Doctors are not good doctors... and if one ever look at the "billing rate"... its purely insane because "ethics is gone"... its about "patient turn overs for revenue"... you get three minutes and a prescription and if you go to an Emergency Room, for non surgical needs, look at the bill, and then look at what was not done and what little that was done... which is mostly done by the on staff nurses and nurse assistants, yet, the doctor will submit a $300+ bill... when they may have spent 35 seconds in your presence.
Look back at the era of Slavery... what did the slave owners send their kids to school to be, and what fields did those kids dominate.
They dominated "Medicine" because its as close to guaranteed money, as was slavery at producing guaranteed money for the slave owners. "Law'... the same things, "Insurance", the same things, "Banking and Finance", the same things... "Advertising and Marketing", the same things.... "Merchandising", the same things... Never into anything where "price fixing was not a standard mode of operating".
There was never a need for the escalation of "inflation" in the ways and rates that it happens.. its only because when people think they need something, and these people feel they are hooked on the need, or in serious need of something, then the Price goes up, and the quality goes down and if its products the quantity decrease.
No adult over 21 should be paid as low as Minimum Wage... and if its a single parent under 21, they too should not be paid as low as minimum wage. HUD has rental rate standards that's published as to what is the rental rates for every part of the country. Transportation is not free, and utilities are not free and food and personal care items are not free.
and the collective of these things cannot be met with Minimum Wage Rates. That current level... should only be applied to "After School Work for Teenagers who live at home and do not have kids and do not have the responsibility to contribute to the family's stability".
There have been some remarkable, incredibly insightful, even visionary posts in this thread. This one right here is one of them. Bravo to you and the others who have come forth with integrity and honor. God bless you.
If you want anyone to listen to you, my suggestion is to change your screen name.
It's not about the name, it's about the substance of the post.
TDS strikes again.
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Originally Posted by craigiri
But you might just be trolling. And you are very wrong.
You're wrong twice here. But don't listen to me because of my screen name right?
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Originally Posted by craigiri
Just for starters, about 10% of the population has IQ under 80. That would seem to be an impediment tohigher paying jobs. Add in those born with disabilities and you are already at 12-13%.
Calling them "stupid" is ridiculous...they were BORN that way and they exist. Look up the numbers.
And so is cherry picking 80 for an IQ.
"5% of people have an IQ under 70 and this is generally considered as the benchmark for "mental retardation", a condition of limited mental ability in that it produces difficulty in adapting to the demands of life."
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Originally Posted by craigiri
Add in those raised in polluted areas where they ingest lead, mercury and other toxic chemicals while their brains are developing, and you have MILLIONS more.
Why would we have to add them in since they are already counted in your silly under 80 IQ statement?
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Originally Posted by craigiri
Are people born with the wrong genes "stupid" or "lazy"?
Just those who believe in big government.
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Originally Posted by craigiri
You don't live in the Real World. I have...at times. Examples:
1. I was raised in an upwardly mobile family - first lived in tiny apartments and row houses, have lots of poor relatives, but parents did well and I lived upper middle class after that.
2. I went to Military school and met many types from all over.
3. I homesteaded for 3+ years, living on about a dollar per day in the sticks - no running water, no toilets, no A/C or anything else of the sort.
4. I started and ran many businesses - from contracting to manufacturing - dealt with employees, suppliers, traveled to Europe and imported equipment, etc.
5. Ran large communities online - founded them and ran for over 20 years....had vast experience with not only the guts of the interweb, but with people in general.
6. Have volunteered for many types of orgs, from Jesuit teaching non-profits in the worst cities to boys and girls clubs and to Meals on Wheels and many more....
7. I have family that were born with non-inherited (win the wrong lottery) major genetic problems.
Oh you had it easy. We used to live by the lake and our father would feed us a lump of dry poison for breakfast and then carve into us with a butchers knife.
The real world and the posters comment, aren't about you.
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Originally Posted by craigiri
I've seen a lot and nothing that I have seen or experienced would jive with your number...or even close.
Could be worse. That poster could have used a number like having an IQ of under 80
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Originally Posted by craigiri
But, sure, you are entitled to that Realty and Opinion. So, what is next? Are we from Aliens? Millions of Americans think so and they claim to live in the real world too.
And? So?
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Originally Posted by craigiri
I would say that healthy people with an IQ at normal or above that live in areas with decent opportunities...yes, those people should be able to make it out of poverty. But that's not 95% of the population. Not nearly.
Why listen to you when your posts are lack pertinent facts? oh but cool story.
There have been some remarkable, incredibly insightful, even visionary posts in this thread. This one right here is one of them. Bravo to you and the others who have come forth with integrity and honor. God bless you.
lmao that you think that gibberish has value.
Finish high school, work a full time job, and wait until you're 21 to get married and have kids and one will have a 75% chance of being middle class or higher and less than a 5% chance of being permanently poor. That's it. Do those 3 simple things and one is well on their way to being successful.
Well that's quite a hobby, observing people who are steeped in poverty trying to survive. You claim they don't get "handouts", so apparently aren't aware that the OECD reports that member nations sent 146.6 billion in aid to developing countries? Do you know how much food and medical aid is sent to developing countries every year? And for the ones who aren't recipients of that aid, a significant number die, either as malnourished infants or they die as young adults of preventable diseases.
The result of just not doing anything and letting the poor figure it out for themselves as you seem to suggest is not great..
It's a nice story but I'm not buying it, people who can't feed their own families have no ability to just band together in happy little groups and somehow survive. And yes, if you truly believe your own rhetoric you are heartless.
Move to where the food and jobs are. btw We're talking about America and not some 3rd world desert where nothing grows.
First off, I am NOT AGAINST UNIONS.... !!!! You always want to blame the lowest level of society, you might want to learn more facts about what is disparities in education.
Yes, there ARE disparities in education. WHY? Teachers unions absolutely won't allow school vouchers so students and their families can choose their school, and Dems won't cross the teachers unions. Even when so many public schools under-educate so many kids. They don't care about improving because they don't have to. They have a captive clientele, and they like it that way.
American society is headed for a change.... President Obama introduced it, and tried to make it work forward, but as soon as he introduced it and set forth to do so, while dealing with the massive default the wealthy had invoked upon and against the general population.
The wealthy convinced many in the working poor and poor white sectors to "chant"... "we want our country back" and so started the cycle of attacks by the "Tea Party", who then dominated the Republican Ranks... with a driving passion to block, attack, tear at, and every other means including escalating racism to a pre 1964 level.... wrapped in a Republican Declaration to "Oppose Anything and Everything Obama" put on the table. Now... fast forward to Trump... who's aim and mission was to try and roll back, tear down and void out the works of President Obama.
The people are "now" awakened to the malice of that cycle, because they have the contrasting view to look at. They saw in Obama the daily work to get the economy going, put constraints on the robber barron mentality and acts of banks, providing assistance to people who were left with nothing when the economy tanked. and helping people save their homes from the predators, while Republican attacked the process and made up every kind of claim why the people should not be helped to sustain and retain their homes, he promoted and enacted Health Care for Americans, and Republican did all they could to encumber the programs and fight against provisions that would have made it better and with lower cost for Americans.
Then look at the contrasting view of Trump... Act one, was trying to destroy Health Care for Americans, and followed that up with over $1.5 Trillion give away to the wealthy. All driven within a daily attack on systems, departments, divisions and general society, and belligerently insulting and degrading everything about America and its Governance and System. It has been a "daily" spin of mad making drama, to the insult of the nations integrity, by trying to govern by the ignorance of a Tweet. He has attacked every Allie we have, except those who have financially backed him personally over the decades. He stood up and declared Putin to be more Trustworthy than our entire Intelligent community.
Well... the people see the sham and the poor are realizing more each day how they are fleeced, and awareness is no in the minds of people, that "nothing" has been done to improve 'Education", and the delusion of Jobs, has shown itself to not be with any high paying living wage jobs, and the vile and malicious temperament has carried itself into society, and escalated violence from people killing their entire families, to racist rants and Jim Crow Style acts of trying to use the Police to Racially Intimidate people. The Poor... not just minority poor people, but poor whites people as well, are realizing they are falling deeper and deeper into the bowels of poverty, their is no advance for their kids education, and the tax give away to the wealthy has proved to feed nothing but their process of 'hiding money" offshore, waiting on the next slave wage nation to allow them to come and set up a factory.
We've seen the daily madness of trying to blame a few thousands Mexicans for problems that 320 million people suffer because of the acts of the wealthy and the industrialist.
We've seen a Republican Congress that has done nothing but try and place "Corporate Bought Judges on our Federal Courts, and Corporate paid for Judges on our Supreme Court, all while they pander and cower in the corners, with hopes that Trump would expose them with the data he has collected on them, to ensure they remain in hostage mode.
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People ARE NOT Poor by Choice... BUT by and through the system that is of construct by malice of design, to ensure that people remain being a low paid service class to ensure the wealthy can get what they want without fair based expenditure, while at the same time, ensuring that the poor will not have the resources to trek to or seek to congregate where the wealthy gather.
Across the nations, Farmers who once lived and raised their kids to become expansively educated, are seeing their Farms thrust into economic chaos and many being bought up by Corporate Farms for what amounts to nickles on the dollar and 100's of years of family built legacy vanishes.
We see a Manufactured Trade War that has damaged the remaining industries of this nation, and cost this nation 100's of Billion of Dollars and the insult and break down and destruction of our Diplomatic Corp had caused a global decline in the Stature of America on the Global Stage. We've seen the 100's of years of European Relations Trashed in front of the Nations of the World.
I would say to any... get out and drive around.... not in a protected well to do circle, but look at the "expanding deterioration which is on tact to become of the stature of ghetto's"... look at the people trying to flee already established ghetto's... to try and preserve their family, but don't have the skills or learning of what it takes to keep a neighborhood stable.
They come trying to chase the vision with limited resources, and the neighborhood falls, as they cycle in and cycle back out... because they could not sustain the standards. many leave demoralized and their esteem broken.... they came with visions, but they also came with thoughts of image standards they persevered was necessary to be accepted, and when income does not match that connived perception. Desperation comes and sets in, the upkeep of the property takes a hit, the kids become unaware and unmanagable and unknowing as to what and why that community was once a desired location to try and move to.
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What they come to learn is... the "Income Earning Capacity" that kept that neighborhood progressing, is no longer there and they find the home were made available, because that income earning capacity had been decimated which is the reasoning as to why people who once lived there packed up and moved. When they move, they rely on the homes rental income to help sustain where they have moved to, so in such a cycle, they no longer maintain the maintenance needs to the property, because they are struggling to sustain their new residence because the income earning capacity is not what they thought it would be in the new neighborhood. In some cases withing 3 or so years some loose those homes as well.
I've seen the cycle played out over and over.... then a generation of so later, the offspring's then go back to the neighborhood of their parents and try and buy up the property with hope to get it at discount, and then gentrification cycles begin, to price out those who came there with hopes of living a good life, in a community they once saw as a beacon, but income earning decline left it in a maintained conditions with crime escalations.
We've seen it, but many never understand the dynamics of what happened... they simply claim that "minorities ran it down"... never once stopping to think or pay attention to the impacts of "industrial decline" and wage stagnation that became prohibitive to sustaining and maintaining and certainly was deficient to elevate the standards.
People came to such communities out of want for a better life.... but economic devastate them and crash the dream, and people become demoralized and disenchanted.
One thing people can learn and come to do is... "don't give your kids everything trying to make a fit into some image model"... because when resources fall and income stagnates, one will have groomed a potential criminal, because they will have no means to sustain the "I have everything" the parents tried to groom them to think was the measure of living.
When people move into neighborhood that are improved over where they come from, "do not chase the illusion of what one thought it was, such as buying a new car, expensive furniture and all the toys"... because fact is, one will not have the income base or the wage level of equation of what it was when many of the well to do whites occupied those communities. The % variable of wage equation is not present.
Anyone can look at communities that sprang up and thrived because a major industrial center was present, but the industry has long since been closed.... and along with it, banks move,merchants close and second tier merchants dominate the shopping environments, all this is followed by a decline in city based maintenance, because the variables of tax resources has declined... with the exodus of industry and upper tier merchants... because the wage structured has been impacted with the losses of the industry that once was the corner stone of that communities growth.
People rush to the Suburbs and in come case they find the stability of the jobs they relied upon downsizes or some merger and acquisition caused a layoff and eventual closure of the shop... and then dotted within these communities the image of decline shows in homes that are not kept up to standards and various other elements that reflect the changes in income dynamics and wage stagnation that cannot meet the cost of inflation.
The blame then goes to claiming people claiming status, and denigrate others because they can't sustain the status imagery that the income of some can sustain... Families are denigrated... and what do we see... we see an increase and rise in "bullying", we see families wrapped in debt to the marriage falls apart, and in some cases we see families demoralized to the point that Mates result to kill of the whole family, because they can't overcome the shame of the conditions and see no way forward.
Some people try the credit card life, until it overtakes them, they refinance debt a few times until there is no more accessibility to do so, and the income has not risen and some debt they can't get out of, even when they try to cut back on items, by then the debt has settled in..
Some say, Oh' they should have managed better... yet in this society, as seen in this website, People Judge Others, by Money and Materialism... and its sweeps the nation, because of the promotion of the imagery standards in every form of media.... and the people who denigrate others, act oblivious to the "impacts of image standards in the human psyche, and that is true no matter how much money or material a person has... when they can no longer sustain it, many things happen... from broken families, drink, drugs, and malice by and through acts of violence.
Those who try and deny this... Turn on your TV... and watch how many "advertising commercial" are shown within 15 minutes... then they might get a concept of how "imagery and materialism" has impacted society. The impact is more dramatic when there is no Industry with well paying jobs to give people the standard of the imagery of what they are bombarded with in every aspect of society.
Society is headed for a change... because people are now aware more than ever of the damages the wealthy and the industrialist and the Business which is filled with degree riders have caused the general society, in their gluttonous mentalities of Avarice minds... have done to fleece the people and work them without just compensation, while flooding them with imported low quality goods.
The change will come when Americans see the need to produce in America much of what is consumed by Americans, and utilize importation as a cooperation with the global nations, but not as the main source of what Americans consume. "Every Country" is learning this lesson.....
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