Kamala Harris Presidential Kick-Off Event in Oakland on Sunday (insurance, companies, dollars)

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by bmw335xi

I've never seen someone with a more progressive vision than you.

He's not hyper-progressive. He's just a cranky old man with a brain.

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by LuvSouthOC

YES EXACTLY! I have explained it over and over. Indeed, Bernie was lectured by the President of Denmark. They are not socialist. They do tax a lot and have a broad safety net, but the means of production are not public. Coincidentally, AOC and other SJWs actually want the means of production to be public. They want communism lite, which always leads to real communism. Will Kamala disavow the Democratic Socialists' views? It is a legitimate question as the Democratic Socialists are a large part of the Democratic Party.


Doesn’t socialism mean that the government will own and run everything?

Democratic socialists do not want to create an all-powerful government bureaucracy. But we do not want big corporate bureaucracies to control our society either. Rather, we believe that social and economic decisions should be made by those whom they most affect.

Today, corporate executives who answer only to themselves and a few wealthy stockholders make basic economic decisions affecting millions of people. Resources are used to make money for capitalists rather than to meet human needs. We believe that the workers and consumers who are affected by economic institutions should own and control them.

Social ownership could take many forms, such as worker-owned cooperatives or publicly owned enterprises managed by workers and consumer representatives. Democratic socialists favor as much decentralization as possible. While the large concentrations of capital in industries such as energy and steel may necessitate some form of state ownership, many consumer-goods industries might be best run as cooperatives.

Democratic socialists have long rejected the belief that the whole economy should be centrally planned. While we believe that democratic planning can shape major social investments like mass transit, housing, and energy, market mechanisms are needed to determine the demand for many consumer goods.

SOURCE: https://www.dsausa.org/about-us/what...ocialism/#govt

Do you have a link to the Prez of Denmark lecturing The Bern? I'd love to read about that.

This DSA website you're quoting--who is that? Is that The Bern's new thing, or is it some other group? (It's not Denmark...?)

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

He's not hyper-progressive. He's just a cranky old man with a brain.

Nailed it ... but I would add: cranky, highly humored ... with a brain.

Old? Yes. Definitely. Still hiking 4-8 miles everyday, sailing, canoeing, bicycling regardless. I’ll let you know when I hit the wheelchair ... if you’re all still around to read ...

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

Do you have a link to the Prez of Denmark lecturing The Bern? I'd love to read about that.

This DSA website you're quoting--who is that? Is that The Bern's new thing, or is it some other group? (It's not Denmark...?)

OC is right about Denmark’s comments. He is also obsessed with hate and fear about the threat of the DSA ... saying they have this major presence in the Democratic Party. Um, no, they don’t ... nothing compared to the Tea Party faction of the GOP ... which, apparently, is fine with OC ... to say nothing of the legions of Trumpeters who back their deranged moron’s destruction of America from 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

There have always been socialists and communists and nationalists involved in our nation’s politics ... keeps things lively and moving ... like Ex-lax.

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

OC is right about Denmark’s comments. He is also obsessed with hate and fear about the threat of the DSA ... saying they have this major presence in the Democratic Party. Um, no, they don’t ... nothing compared to the Tea Party faction of the GOP ... which, apparently, is fine with OC ... to say nothing of the legions of Trumpeters who back their deranged moron’s destruction of America from 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

There have always been socialists and communists and nationalists involved in our nation’s politics ... keeps things lively and moving ... like Ex-lax.

Thanks for the perspective. My question remains, though; who are they? Is this the New Bern? It didn't have his name on it, so I'm inclined to think not...? I've never heard of these people.

I think it's probably some of the people The Bern stirred up, last election round. But they claim they've been around for a long time. And notice that they say, somewhat obliquely, that the public should own the means of production, or at least have a say in "economic institutions", which they hint would be achieved via public ownership. Maybe it's the same old Socialist Party, using kinder, gentler language?

Beats me. Anyway, if anyone thinks they represent Democrats, or have any influence in that Party, they're mistaken.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

Thanks for the perspective. My question remains, though; who are they? Is this the New Bern? It didn't have his name on it, so I'm inclined to think not...? I've never heard of these people.

I think it's probably some of the people The Bern stirred up, last election round. But they claim they've been around for a long time. And notice that they say, somewhat obliquely, that the public should own the means of production, or at least have a say in "economic institutions", which they hint would be achieved via public ownership. Maybe it's the same old Socialist Party, using kinder, gentler language?

Beats me. Anyway, if anyone thinks they represent Democrats, or have any influence in that Party, they're mistaken.

Basically. With new members from new generations added.

They’re having some influence. Because times call for evolution (not revolution). AI is starting to change the economic and employment landscapes. Wealth inequality has reached medieval proportions again (or should I spell that medi-evil?) where a handful of kings and royalty have basically taken over the world as it was in days of yore.

The dynamic that is at root for creating a place for socialist sentiments is simple: homo sapiens is a social species. Social species are structured [biologically] to live cooperatively, not simply each individual for himself.

Homo sapiens, like most primates, are designed to live in small troops and bands under very intimate levels of cooperation. We are able to live outside those design boundaries because of our depth of empathetic capacity ... and our most unique, highly advanced talent, shared otherwise only primitively by a few species of other animals: rational analytics. The use of which allows us to develop artificial social infrastructures to support massive populations living together in semi-tolerance. Law and politics is the name of the game. And they are structured to manage our mutual estrangements so we don’t completely destroy each other such as troops of chimpanzees are wont to do when crossing paths.

Conservatives champion the individual to achieve individual success ... which isn’t natural to our species.

Liberals champion embracing each other for mutual support ... which is a nice thought , but not realistic beyond small groupings.

Libertarians, bless their little hearts, embrace the idea that all men/women will act responsibly if given the freedom to do so ... perhaps the nicest idea of the three basic political ideological types ... but they’re just ignoring natural and social history which has demonstrated that’s a lie for the past 10,000 years.

Oh well.

Only solution is to drop world population levels by 5 or 6 billion and revert to living in small troops and bands again.

And since that’ll never happen, we’re just going to have to keep muddling through, clawing at each others’ ideologics with bitter hatred and accusations ... and live with the unpleasant balance that provides.

[alliance]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

There have always been socialists and communists and nationalists involved in our nation’s politics ... keeps things lively and moving ... like Ex-lax.

While that’s true, has there been a period in our history where they had such a significant percentage of support within an entire generation (millennials)? They might not have the support of their own party, but more and more “educated” kids are blindly going along with the bs being spouted by uncle Bernie and AOC. Who wouldn’t want a utopia with promises of someone else paying for everything? “Free” stuff and victimhood is hard to resist for the young and naive. That makes this crop dangerous.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by alliance

While that’s true, has there been a period in our history where they had such a significant percentage of support within an entire generation (millennials)? They might not have the support of their own party, but more and more “educated” kids are blindly going along with the bs being spouted by uncle Bernie and AOC. Who wouldn’t want a utopia with promises of someone else paying for everything? “Free” stuff and victimhood is hard to resist for the young and naive. That makes this crop dangerous.

Oh yes. Much more so. Look back to the history of organized labor a century ago for more insight on that.

I don’t agree that Bernie is spouting bs at all. Nor do I think he, and other similar progressives are selling that everything can be had for free. That’s a gross oversimplification. Very few people are so stupid as to miss that there’s cost to everything. The issues around education and health care and so forth are how the costs will be paid from what sources. The social progressives are suggesting that the source for new funds exist in wealth inequality. Obviously that’s true because the poor are getting poorer and the rich are getting richer. Not a bleeding heart, liberal lament from me ... just a statement of obvious fact. A very small cadre of our population has control of all the funds ... and they print the new money. Quite a neat trick!

But, unless we are going to kill off billions of people and sterilize many who remain, the controllers of wealth are going to have to see to it that their minions - who are the consumers that support their wealth - are healthy and kept amused (so we stay out of revolutionary level trouble).

Basic Income Guarantee (B.I.G.) is right around the corner as fewer and fewer worker bees are required and more and more people will be poor with lots of time on their hands... needing happiness drugs and mindless entertainments (like social media!).

Read Huxley’s ‘Brave New World’, presciently published back in 1932, for great insights if you are interested in our world’s future.

He nailed it.

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by alliance

While that’s true, has there been a period in our history where they had such a significant percentage of support within an entire generation (millennials)? They might not have the support of their own party, but more and more “educated” kids are blindly going along with the bs being spouted by uncle Bernie and AOC. Who wouldn’t want a utopia with promises of someone else paying for everything? “Free” stuff and victimhood is hard to resist for the young and naive. That makes this crop dangerous.

WAAAAAIT a minute! The young people I've spoken to, who support "socialism", aren't interested in ACTUAL Soclialism, you know--the capital "S" kind. THey're into Bernie-ism. Which is to say, some permutation of Dem-ism. (Or perhaps, 3rd Party-ism) No one's rushing out and registering with the Socialist Party, that I know of. Nor the Communist Party. Reality check!

[veritased]

Tulemutt, you are one strange bird.