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The exact origin or original use of these flags doesn't really matter - they are still perceived appropriately as symbols of a defeated regime that fought to keep an institution of enslaving other human beings, and resisting the equal treatment of said people in later eras.
Just as other groups fly 'pride' flags, I view (and have flown) the Confederate flag in the name of white pride. Not white power, as I believe in freedom, opportunity and equality for all Americans, but white pride.
It's a big "eff you" to the people who hate straight, white, Christian people.
Exactly why the Civil War began in the first place. Hoping for a rematch...?
Indentured servitude was not slavery, nor did it have anything to do with the Civil War. It was a contract entered into freely by both parties, with a termination date.
The current day GOP is closer in heritage to the old Civil War South than to the original Republican Party.
No distractions or obfuscations can change that fact.
spoken like a true lefty.....and what does the current Democrat party is closer to since they have a love affair with socialism, identity politics, and big government? .........they are closer to the Chavistas in Venezuela and the rest of the failed socialist/communist states.
but the problem in the U.S. is the Confederate flag?....right? LMAO!
To me, as a southerner, I feel it's important to recognize my fallen ancestors and their lives they gave to fight in the Civil War. My great great grandfather and his father both died fighting for South Carolina and what they believed in. They also were dirt farmers who owned slaves.
I don't visit their graves. I don't live in the past. Honestly, other than the pure history of it (I like the stories of the past and the geneology of it all) I don't have a feeling or care or opinion about anything that happened 200 years ago.
I don't think that I should be held accountable for their actions.
My next-door neighbor growing up was a Civil War re-enactor and he and his sons would dress up like Confederates and fight battles with other actors. His wife was a member of the Daughters of the Confederacy and they very much celebrated their southern heritage.
Did I feel any differently towards him as I did my Nazi sympathizer crazy neighbor who lived across the street? Or my black neighbor that lived a few doors down? Probably. We all have different views about different people and I'm sure I thought my southern heritage neighbor was just a tad on the redneck side of things, but they were still good people.
The crazy Nazi sympathizer blew his brains out one day after a long weekend of binge drinking by the way.
Do I understand why people are proud of the Confederate Flag? I mean, I guess so. Half my immediate family is from deep south SC and my dad's side is from Michigan. The only civil war memorabilia our family still owns is from dad's side of the family. We still have a full captain's Union federal uniform.
But, if you are a person who honors and respects your family's history, and you're proud of the way they fought in battle, gave their lives, etc I can see where the Confederate flag could mean a lot to you.
Personally, I think most people I know who fly the flag do so to anger the SJW's and to get into arguments with other people. To me most people just fly it to troll other people.
So, yeah, being southern means we have to constantly be reminded of how terrible our forefathers were and how we are responsible for slavery etc. We also got our butts kicked.
Some folks have a hard time letting go I suppose.
In a nutshell, the Confederate flag to this southerner is a part of my history, a part of my heritage, a symbol of racism and of a horrible time in our country, and a source of division - all rolled up into one.
May be, but be aware that since the Klan and the Neonazis co-opted it, it has become a symbol of racism and hatred, and is flown at joint rallies of the two groups alongside big red flags with Swastikas. It does not have the same conotatioon today that it did in 1865.
Reenactments are wonderful things. They remind us that the Union will survive in spite of mass treason.
so did Lincoln and the North. Lincoln and the North supported the Corwin Amendment. So if Lincoln and the North promised the South they could keep theis slaves forever and he would sign a constitutional amendment if the South returned to the Union and pay their taxes and the South refused and were willing ti fight and die for their independence then it kills your myth that most in the South fought over slavery.
Many Northern civilians owned slaves. Prior to, during and even after the War Of Northern Aggression. Surprisingly, to many history impaired individuals, most Union Generals and staff had slaves to serve them! William T. Sherman had many slaves that served him until well after the war was over and did not free them until late in 1865. U.S. Grant also had several slaves, who were only freed after the 13th amendment in December of 1865. When asked why he didn't free his slaves earlier, Grant stated "Good help is so hard to come by these days."
Did you make this up? LMAO!!! yeah, that was the American dream of every poor white in the south, to save money and buy a slave. Nevermind that owning a slave was expensive. You had to buy him and take care of him for life. Food, roof, medical attention, clothing, training........but according to you that was the dream of every poor white person in the South......LMAO!!!!
That was also the dream of every poor person in Brazil, Puerto Rico, Cuba and the rest of the European colonies in the Americas, to save the little money they had to buy black slaves to work in the lands they were too poor to own.....LMAO!!!!
I don’t care about Latin America. I care about the United States.
And yes, poor whites in the South (the overwhelming majority of whites) saw owning a slave as something to strive for like owning a Mercedes today. It was a serious hike in status.
Slaves weren’t expensive to own at all. They paid for themselves quite well. Food? They fed them scraps. Clothes? Burlap rags and footwear that barely qualified as shoes. Medical attention? Don’t make me laugh. Training? What training? Being a picker or laborer? Stop it. If you’re talking about complex artisan crafts like chimney makers, farmers or blacksmiths, slaves already dominated those trades in the South. Most white dirt farmers had no technical skills worth passing along outside of farmwork. And slaves didn’t need training for that. They’d been doing it since they were knee high to a duck.
If slaves were so burdensome financially, why did white slave owners go absolutely bat**** crazy when one escaped and were willing to pay steep bounties to get them back dead or alive?
So yes. White southerners were obsessed with owning a slave for status and sexual aspects.
There are tons of stories of slave owners that gathered their slaves at the end of the war to tell them that they were free, and then the slave owner had an immediate stroke or heart attack right after that because losing all those slaves left them distraught and despondent. They couldn’t go on in life without exploiting other people. They had no Will to live.
The current day GOP is closer in heritage to the old Civil War South than to the original Republican Party.
No distractions or obfuscations can change that fact.
The current day GOP is nothing like the Democrat party back then. And I note you provided no evidence that it is. Your expectation seems to be that people take your partisan liberal Democrat word for it.
I don't think the people who supported the abolition of slavery would be cool with abortion and infanticide, or high taxes.
May be, but be aware that since the Klan and the Neonazis co-opted it, it has become a symbol of racism and hatred, and is flown at joint rallies of the two groups alongside big red flags with Swastikas. It does not have the same conotatioon today that it did in 1865.
Reenactments are wonderful things. They remind us that the Union will survive in spite of mass treason.
so if those groups take the American flag for their rallies that means they own the flag and we must change it and disown it? LMAO!!!!!!
A few racist Mexicans and racist gang bangers use the Mexican flag and symbol to represent their group, should all Mexicans disown the flag now?
for many natives the American flag is a symbol of oppression and theft of their lands....should we stop using our flag because of the feelings of a minority?
I'm a native Southerner. The Confederate battle flag was always promoted more by the lower classes than the upper classes, but even in the 1990s, "heritage, not hate" was a valid description of it. Unfortunately the Confederate flag has been taken and used as a symbol by the worst racists, such as Ralph Northam, and it can't really be viewed now as simply a symbol of heritage. The fact that Donald Trump supporters nationwide use it shows that it's not simply a historical symbol; it's a symbol of bigotry now. It needs to go.
cuebald, your slogan (Visit S.C. And Feel Better About Your State) is incredibly nasty and ill-informed. I see that you're based in Columbia, so your slogan really slams your own town. Try visiting Greenville and Charleston, which are charming.
The "elites" of the south were doing what the elites do everywhere, protecting their economic-interests. The economic-interests of the south were in the production and sale of cotton to Europe, especially England and France.
The preservation of slavery was absolutely necessary, but so were low tariffs, among other things. Which is why even when the Corwin Amendment was adopted, and even when Lincoln gave the south assurances, the south still insisted on secession. The Morrill Tariff was passed, which nearly tripled tariff rates.
We all know the economic reasons for why the southern elites wanted to secede. But what were the economic reasons for the northern elites to fight a war to "preserve the union"?
The south may be the bad guys, but does that make the north the good guys? Might it be true that both sides were the bad guys?
And the "secession ordinances" didn't only mention slavery...
Abraham Lincoln was called the "rail-candidate", because he was neither for or against slavery, but only opposed the "expansion" of slavery into the new territories of the west.
He wrote... "Whether slavery shall go into Nebraska, or other new territories, is not a matter of exclusive concern to the people who may go there. The whole nation is interested that the best use shall be made of these territories. We want them for the homes of free white people. This they cannot be, to any considerable extent, if slavery shall be planted within them. Slave States are places for poor white people to remove FROM; not to remove TO. New free States are the places for poor people to go to and better their condition."
They did, however ALL mention slavery. Every last one of them.
There is no question that Abraham Lincoln was not committed either when he became president. He came from a poor family, which as far as I know never had the money for a slave. Correct me if I'm wrong. It is also true that he issued the Emancipation Proclamation, which, in a different context, could be considered a document of his hatred for blacks. He turned them loose without education, possessions, housing, money or any way to legally get it, to sink or swim and live by their wits in a hostile world. The freesd slaves were then condemned for stealing to feed themselves and their families.
The war was not fought over Lincoln's views. It was begun and fought at the behest of wealthy men by poor men, as all wars are, to protect their right to hold other human beings in bondage. Whatever Lincoln's views were, black slavery and keeping money in the hands of white men were the root causes of the War.
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