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Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,590 posts, read 14,732,837 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalExpectations
No, they are not. If anything phrasing #1 is incomplete because it treats people like children: "would you like ice cream?" because there is no source of funding.
#2 is fair - Across the USA, on average and per person we consume $11,000-ish in medical care. So, each of us needs to pay the average to the federal government, plus some more for administration, so the federal government can be the single payer.
You just don't like that it costs so much.
#3 is posed because, frankly, wealthiest among us do not have enough money to fund it. Even Bezos, Gates & Buffett could not pay for all.
#4 illustrates there there is no one else besides all of us collectively - each paying their $11K-ish fair share.
The USA is not Canada, is it?
You're being ridiculous on purpose, because you don't like single payer, so you feel you have to strawman it
It's not, but what relevance is that to the actual discussion. Why couldn't the US use a similar funding mechanism that Canada does?
No country funds its public healthcare via a poll tax like your option 2, no country funds it via whacking up taxes on a handful of the wealthiest individuals either. Much more realistic would be something like a national sales tax of a few %, some increase in FICA and a few % extra on some of the higher federal income tax bands.
Are you saying Neanderthals and Cro-Magnons went to hospitals?
Is that some kind of bizarre hallucinogenic-induced alternative history?
Medicine was not advanced enough at the time, however hospitals for the poor began in medieval times.
For instance St Thomas's Hospital across from Parliament in London was founded in 1100, St Bartholomew's Hospital in London ewas founded in 1123 and Bethlem Royal Hospital (a mental hospital in London), also known as St Mary Bethlehem, Bethlehem Hospital and Bedlam was founded in 1247. There are numereous other examples and other cities such as Edinburgh also have a very long and well documented history and were renownked centres of medicine.
Do people have a right to nose jobs, breast or butt-implants?
It's your "right" only if you have the inherent skills.
If you don't have the inherent skills, you'll have to ask another for assistance.
Cosmetic surgery is only carried out as a medical need in terms of unversal healthcare, and such surgery for merely vanity reasons is private.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirces
The majority of medical conditions are self-induced as a result of Life-Style choices.
They have a right to choose their Life-Style, but they don't have a right to compel me to compensate them for their Life-Style choices.
Something like that.
Some medical conditions are self induced, however in terms of universal healthcare you have access to a local family doctor who will offer services aimed at leading a healthier life including diet advice and will prescribe medication such as statins or tablets to lower blood pressure etc.
Last edited by Brave New World; 04-14-2019 at 03:54 AM..
Indeed, a part of most universal healthcare systems is the provision of programmes to educate and encourage healthier lifestyles, which then saves cost down the line. It's not just about hospitals and treatment once people are already sick.
Indeed, a part of most universal healthcare systems is the provision of programmes to educate and encourage healthier lifestyles, which then saves cost down the line. It's not just about hospitals and treatment once people are already sick.
That was tried here with the FDA's "food pyramid", and its still killing americans who follow it.
Key takeaway; dont take lifestyle or dietary advice from politicians and their govt underlings.
Indeed, a part of most universal healthcare systems is the provision of programmes to educate and encourage healthier lifestyles, which then saves cost down the line. It's not just about hospitals and treatment once people are already sick.
OH, you think smokers don't know it's unhealthy? Plenty of people make bad decisions regardless of being "educated" about wiser choices.
You're being ridiculous on purpose, because you don't like single payer, so you feel you have to strawman it
I'm showing you the error of your thinking. Offering up ice cream cones to children always elicits an answer of "YES!!!!".
The way the question is always phrased, "single payer" is code for "someone else payer". There is no one else: it is all of us.
Most goods and services purchased by the government (at the federal, state and local levels) are goods & services where it is more efficient or more effective for the purchasing to be centralized - such as the commonly identified defense, pharmaceutical industry safety, agricultural inspections for safety, police forces, fire departments, and the like.
The purchase of medical care does not fit that model.
"Single Payer" does not solve the problem that medical care costs too darn much in this country.
In the early 1960s, before LBJ's disastrous federal expansion via the "Great Society" experiment, on average across the nation, we'd each consume about 6 days worth of our total annual compensation on medical care. The "Great Society" started the inexorable escalation in medical expenditures. Nowadays, on average across the nation, we each consume north of 60 days worth of our annual compensation on medical care.
The problem that needs to be addressed is that medical care costs too darn much, not who pays for it. "Single Payer" just rearranges the deck chairs on the Titanic:
after implementing a hypothetical single-payer system, we STILL would consume north of $11K-ish per person per year on average.
after implementing a hypothetical single-payer system, we STILL would consume, on average across the nation about 60 days worth of our annual compensation on medical care.
I have already explained that most dentist, opticians, residential homes for the elderly and hospices are not NHS run.
The UK has a public ands private system.
In terms of eyes, you go to a private opticians, usually on the high street, and pay a fee to have an eye examination.
Those who are under 18, have a disability, are on welfare or have a family history of eye conditions such as glaucoma get their eyes checked for free and may get help with glasses.
For the rest of us we generally pay £10 for an examination and have to buy any glasses or contact lenses, it's the same for dental care.
If there is anything wrong the optician will either prescribe glasses or reffer the person to see a consultant, you can go private if you so wish and can have a private cataract operation, indeed it's a fairly straight forward procedure taking 15 to 20 minutes.
The NHS also carry out over 300,000 cataract operations a year and the All Party Parliamentary Group on Eye Healthand Visual Impairment, which sits in Parliament made 16 reccomendations last year including establishing separate ophthalmology contracts with NHS providers from April 2019 to ensure there is public transparency about funding invested in eye-care and how this correlates to assessed need in Joint Strategic Needs Assessment.
Cataract surgery is the most common eye operation carried out with over 400,000 people having surgery in the UK each year. However, this figure is set to rise by 25 per cent over the next 10 years and by 50 per cent over the next 20 years.
The NHS has emergency eye departments and even hospitals specialising in eye surgery (and dentistry) such as Moorfields, and will deal with serious conditions relating to eyes. As for the CCG's it is clear that Parliament may need to legislate if all CCG's are not meeting guidance on such issues.
Last edited by Brave New World; 04-14-2019 at 09:18 AM..
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