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Actually, the pro life crowd is largely the same group of people that talks about how the welfare rolls are full of unmarried, pregnant, minority women. Welfare reform begun in the 1990's, has, in fact, made it much harder to get public assistance. I suspect most of the same people who oppose abortion were highly enthusiastic about kicking as many people off the welfare rolls as they could.
Not everyone falls into the same stereotype, but a whole lot of people who oppose abortion think like this:
1. Anyone who has sex out of wedlock not only deserves to get pregnant, but deserves to suffer the consequences of poverty and stigma that (they believe) should go along with it.
2. Government assistance to the poor is wrong because they believe it "encourages" out-of-wedlock pregnancies.
3. Therefore, in their minds it isn't inconsistent to pass laws against abortion and turn around and deny government assistance to poor pregnant women.
I know its pretty twisted, but they probably think there is nothing harsh about this set of beliefs either.
I'm pro-life aka anti-abortion under most circumstances.
I did not say you said that, stop knee jerk reacting and looking to be annoyed.
MY POINT: If pro abortioners are so peachy keen on abortion, they DO NOT CARE how many abortions there are.
Then stop trying to put words in other posters mouths. You really aren’t open to open dialogue or you wouldn’t try to twist words. Just accept them for what was said. Talk about knee jerk.
Most all people want all children to be wanted with the ability to have them cared for. That isn’t always the case. That’s why most people want abortion reduced. I also don’t want young girls to undergo either abortion, birth or adoption when they are ill equipped for the experience or ramifications of any of these choices. The list is long just a few reasons. Humanity and it’s ills are not easily overcome.
You are naive in the extreme if you think all abortions pre legality, were done in a doctors office. Pre 1920s and beyond,even up to the 60’s women got abortions in places other than a doctors office.
They also threw themselves down stairs, ingested all sorts of crap to abort as well as have someone beat them In the belly. desperate women do desperate things
Have you seen the 19th century advertisements for abortifacients? Pennyroyal, rue, all kind of herbs were used. Of course, they didn't mention abortion in their ads, just "female" pills, menstrual regulation, removal of menstrual blockages, things like that.
Have you seen the 19th century advertisements for abortifacients? Pennyroyal, rue, all kind of herbs were used. Of course, they didn't mention abortion in their ads, just "female" pills, menstrual regulation, removal of menstrual blockages, things like that.
Yep and black cohosh Foolishness to think it only happened under a doctors care
Start with PP and eugenics founders. Look into Guttmacher. They fully state that they lied about how many illegal abortions there were, how many women died from these illegal abortions. They admit that they MADE UP numbers simply to gain traction for the abortion movement.
When the other side estimates there were as few as 300 deaths a year after illegal abortions before 1973, it is still fewer than the same kind of deaths today, so I don't want to go back to those times.
"We found that homicide was the leading cause of death among women who were pregnant ... and accounted for 20% of deaths among that group, compared with 6% of deaths among nonpregnant women of reproductive age," says author Isabelle Horon, DrPH, from the Maryland Department of Health and Mental Hygiene, who conducted a study that looked at pregnancy-associated deaths from 1993 to 1998.
Do you believe that the number of abortions should be reduced?
That you even ask this reveals that you do not have a clue what it means to be pro-choice.
Someone who is pro-choice does not want there to be more abortions. We are not recruiting women off the street to have abortions. We would be happy if access to the more effective (and also more expensive) long acting contraceptives could be improved. We also want couples better informed about what their contraceptive choices are. Note that trying to put Planned Parenthood out of business does nothing to foster those goals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice
Can you post a link to that study? I'd like to see the study design and methodology.
There were never any "back alley abortions." IT was a name given to illegal abortions because the women would enter the facility through the BACK ALLEY door. Although people truly believe that there were ally abortions abortions performed. And THAT is their argument are to why illegal abortion s were dangerous. Because women were lying in gutters while abortions were being performed.
Why are you arguing with me when we both AGREE that there were no abortions performed in gutters? Do you just immediately quote anything I post simply to argue with me? Seems like it.
Your thinking about this is awfully concrete. I do not think anyone here actually believed that a "back alley abortion" was actually done in the alley.
However the majority were not being done by physicians in medical offices. A lot were done on kitchen tables.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice
It is an issue that is separate from abortion.
A 2018 FL assessment of reasons women cited for abortion included only 20% saying it was because of socio/economic reasons.
The vast majority -- 75% -- had no issues with finances. What's being done to address the majority of abortions that have absolutely nothing to do with money?
*crickets*
Also: Almost 50% of all births are paid for out of Medicaid.
"Florida’s new abortion reporting system enables greater accuracy and precision, but it also illustrates that the difference between an elective abortion and one performed for a different reason, such as social concerns, can be somewhat arbitrary."
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice
Can you cite statistics?
Start with PP and eugenics founders. Look into Guttmacher. They fully state that they lied about how many illegal abortions there were, how many women died from these illegal abortions. They admit that they MADE UP numbers simply to gain traction for the abortion movement.
Please do some research. You seem like a reasonable person. Understand EXACTLY what it is you are talking about. About 90% were performed by physicians. Not by women "throwing themselves down stairs."
Please cite the source where "they lied about how many illegal abortions there were, how many women died from these illegal abortions" and that "90% were performed by physicians."
"Traumatic abruption results in 6% of third-trimester gravidas who are hit or kicked in the abdomen during assaults. Three cases are presented in which blows inflicted to the abdomen of pregnant women in their third trimester resulted in the death of the fetus due to abruptio placentae. Two cases were domestic altercations while one was a third-party criminal assault. In all cases the gravida herself escaped significant intra-abdominal injury, and external abdominal findings were minimal. The clinical signs were a history of loss of fetal movements shortly after the assault and loss of fetal heart tones within hours after the assault. One patient had vaginal bleeding; one had uterine contractions. In the cases of domestic abuse, both women initially gave false histories of how the injury occurred."
"'Historical and contemporary data show that where abortion is illegal or highly restricted, women resort to unsafe means to end an unwanted pregnancy, including self-inflicted abdominal and bodily trauma, ingestion of dangerous chemicals, self-medication with a variety of drugs, and reliance on unqualified abortion providers,' ACOG says. 'Today, approximately 21 million women around the world obtain unsafe, illegal abortions each year.'
In the U.S. before Roe v. Wade, ACOG says an estimated 1.2 million U.S. women got illegal abortions every year, and says unsafe abortions killed as many as 5,000 of them. 'After the Supreme Court ruling, mortality due to septic illegal abortion decreased precipitously,' ACOG said."
"Look over here at my indignation and redirecting the conversation at hand - not at the fact that I can't consistently support my position and refuse to answer questions that demonstrate it."
Can't rep you again. The redirecting and deflecting has been so over the top that I've thought about starting a thread in the Psychology forum to try to gain insight into this kind of mind. It is truly baffling to me. I want to be in a moderated debate with her where actual answers would be required.
And with this post, I'm sure I will get a /shrug/ and a buh-bye.
Then stop trying to put words in other posters mouths. You really aren’t open to open dialogue or you wouldn’t try to twist words. Just accept them for what was said. Talk about knee jerk.
Most all people want all children to be wanted with the ability to have them cared for. That isn’t always the case. That’s why most people want abortion reduced. I also don’t want young girls to undergo either abortion, birth or adoption when they are ill equipped for the experience or ramifications of any of these choices. The list is long just a few reasons. Humanity and it’s ills are not easily overcome.
Question to the exact statement you made: Why aren't women able to care for the babies?
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