Active shooter reported in Dayton OH, as many as 7 dead (CNN, companies)

[middle-aged mom]

Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould

Too soon to know what motivated this shooter. But we have a good idea what motivated the El Paso one.

https://twitter.com/Katnuss72/status...74707640782849

If the manifesto attributed to the shooter is confirmed, it also makes clear he was anti - immigrant before Trump. Some of Trump’s more extreme rhetoric and that of some of the people within the crowds at his rallies may have resonated with him and created a sense of rationalization and urgency to act. He sought narcissistic fulfillment and likely fancied himself a hero. He did not expect to survive.

There’s a reason why the shooter drove across state for 10 hours to El Paso. He targeted El Paso.

The Governor of Texas announced the state will pursue this as a hate crime.

[krichton]

Ah, another Trump supporter appears to have made the news. Wonderful.

[cuebald]

Originally Posted by ipaper

Antifa have nothing to do with this. Some just can't fathom the reality of what the person who did this look like. So, they want to share the blame instead so to speak. Doesn't matter that no one from the FBI, or local and state police have said anything about Antifa.

I realize this is a diversion. There are a half dozen posters here who do it all the time because the facts of a situation don't fit their narratives. They are normally better ignored.

[lifeexplorer]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

They were? And while protecting their families they allowed dozens of people to die when they could have stopped the carnage?

It’s not their responsibility to protect other people!!!!

Their responsibility stops at themselves and their families.

[craigiri]

Originally Posted by moneill

Your argument doesn't hold water because the gun laws in place are NOT universal.

USA is a country with many states and you can travel easily between states.

Universal gun laws would have to be attempted before you could try to argue the gun laws don't work.

I'm not advocating for gun laws, just explaining why you can't argue that it is obvious gun laws don't work.

They actually do work - and it's why a densely populated state with a big firearms history (MA) and even lots of current manufacturing....has 1/3rd the gun violence rate of Texas.

One cannot pick and choose too much when comparing.....in a sense you would think MA. would have higher gun violence since when people are living closer together (according to some), there is more conflict.

But I think it is mostly the thoughts and words honestly. Guns, although MA and CT freed the USA (largely) by them, are just not part of our everyday culture or thoughts. We don't "arm up" with fantasies that we are going to protect ourselves from some boogieman.

Guns are just like anything else here. If you want one you can get it. But the culture is not devoid of reason, so it doesn't pump us to "be scared" and to take "2nd amendment remedies".

A lot of it is tolerance.

Here are the lowest firearms death rates in the USA.....think about what they have in common other than being progressive and liberal....

Massachusetts (MA) 3.4 242
Rhode Island (RI) 4.1 49
New York (NY) 4.4 900
Hawaii (HI) 4.5 66
Connecticut (CT) 4.6 172
New Jersey (NJ) 5.5 485

Here are the highest - not just a little higher.....400% or MORE higher.

Missouri (MO) 19 1,144
Oklahoma (OK) 19.6 766
Mississippi (MS) 19.9 587
Louisiana (LA) 21.3 987
Alabama (AL) 21.5 1,046

What do those states have in terms of firearms laws and tolerance of the specific populations that create these mass killings?

This is not rocket science. But I don't have to preach to anyone. If Texas is happy (according to their Gov in a tweet) to be #2 in gun sales (he wants to be #1), then so be it....as long as they don't spread their violence elsewhere too much.....

But that is much of the problem also.

Even the strongest laws are weak. In Ct yesterday a guy was caught at the airport with
Unlicensed pistol
Oversize (illegal) mag
LOADED....
Attempting to board an aircraft

He was released on a $1,000 surety bond.

God Forbid he was caught with some heroin or many other things.

I have family members who often "forget" what they are doing and discover a pistol in their pocketbook or backpack...loaded. They don't care much because the penalty if caught is about zero (for an average white person in Florida, for example)....

It's always interesting how some people tell us "laws work, just enforce them", but don't mention that the lack of strong penalties if enforced wouldn't change a thing. That dude could have boarded a plane and easily killed a dozen people any maybe even brought down the airliner.

But $1,000 is enough to get him out.

[BentBow]

The solution is not less arms. The solution is everyone be armed.
Only you are responsible for your life. NO ONE ELSE.

[usayit]

Originally Posted by PedroMartinez

Why will gun laws keep guns out of the hands of criminals while drug laws won't keep drugs out of the hands of criminals?

It's amazing how you can believe a person who wants to go murder dozens of people would be fearful of breaking a gun law.

Drug laws failure is related to the related violence crimes associated and not treating the epidemic as a health issue. Other countries have identified this and now have safe areas to obtain and use while providing/encouraging help with addiction. Why would a user support a trade that spawns violence when the drugs they seek are widely available in safe drug areas?

The drugs themselves are not an instrument that can directly harm another it is the activities around it that deemed it a failure (gun violence including).

A better comparison would be licenses/regulation around operating a vehicle. The licenses and regulations are in place to protect those around you as you operate a vehicle. Just like guns, vehicles can directly inflict on others around you.

Accidents, deaths occur despite vehicle licensing and laws.... it doesn't mean we should get ride of the regulations around it.


There are many crimes that occur despite of laws against it.... it doesn't mean we should throw out the laws.

[ipaper]

The Ohio shooter was probably motivated by the El Paso shooter, another young angry white guy.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by PedroMartinez

A good guy is any person who is not the bad guy.
Most good guys with guns, who aren't good guys working as police, carry to protect themselves and their families.
If you don't want to carry, that's your CHOICE.
The 2nd guarantees my right to carry, and I CHOOSE. To do so.
If you're ever in the scenario of a mass shooting, your only hope is that the police arrive before a bullet arrives in you.
My hope is that either the police arrive or tgat I can shoot him before he shoots me.
My odds would be better than yours.

Well so much for the idea that's been shoved down our throats that the good guys with guns would save us from mass shooters huh? Odder yet is the idea that many people in these forums have pushed that we should arm kindergarten teachers and expect them to take out a shooter in their classroom but in reality 'good guys' cower with their guns and hope the police show up.

[middle-aged mom]

Originally Posted by Eli34

America is a war zone now. Just pray you or your family don’t get caught in the cross-fire.

Thank the NRA and Republican Party for making weapons of mass murder accessible to the mentally ill and evil doers in this country.

Likely neither of the two most recent shooters were determined by a court to be mentally defective. It’s likely neither perceived themselves to be mentally ill. The El Paso shooter had 10 hours to think about his intentions on the long drive from the Dallas area.

In absence of a history of evil, there is no reasonable way to predict evil.

The NRA is a powerful lobby of gun manufacturers. After a solid attempt to expand their influence to other issues, it seems they are in the process of retreating to their original purpose.