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I've had the MMR FOUR times & I can't reduce the risk of myself FROM those infants, nor can I reduce the risk TO those infants.
Their only hope is to have an unvaccinated mom who had the measles.
Which gives zero information at all, about the vax status of who GAVE them the flu. They died from secondary pneumonia; a shameful thing for a first-world country to have allowed happening.
It's likely the vaccinated are infecting everybody; post LAIV flu vax shedding can last up to 11 days. Some herd.
You might want to read a bit about cellular immunity and measles. Lack of protective antibodies does not necessarily mean you are as susceptible as you think you are.
Infants of mothers who have had measles vaccine are protected, though it wears off a little earlier than if the mom has had measles, about age four months versus age six months.
You are assuming none of those deaths were from viral pneumonia. Surely as a nurse you are aware that flu itself can and does cause pneumonia? Sometimes the damage from the virus is so severe that antibiotics may eliminate bacteria but the lung cannot recover. You might want to read a bit about influenza and ARDS and the use of extracorporeal life support to treat it.
Any virus shed from live attenuated influenza vaccine cannot cause disease. It has been adapted to a colder environment and cannot reproduce in the lower respiratory tract.
"Flu vaccines do not cause flu illness. The nasal spray flu vaccine does contain live viruses. However, the viruses are attenuated (weakened), so that they will not cause influenza illness. The weakened viruses are also cold-adapted, which means they are designed to only multiply at the cooler temperatures found within the nose. The viruses cannot infect the lungs or other areas where warmer temperatures exist."
"Can people receiving the nasal-spray flu vaccine LAIV pass the vaccine viruses to others?
In clinical studies, transmission of vaccine viruses to close contacts occurred only rarely. The current estimated risk of getting infected with vaccine virus after close contact with a person vaccinated with the nasal-spray flu vaccine is low (0.6%-2.4%). Because the viruses are weakened, infection is unlikely to result in influenza illness symptoms since the vaccine viruses have not been shown change into typical or naturally occurring influenza viruses."
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Originally Posted by Vector1
I am not exactly sure what you are driving at, but I think we agree on some aspects.
Listing RA as the first cause of death is likely inaccurate, as RA did not kill him. That said, the medication given to treat RA had such a negative effect on his immune system, it likely led to him having an uncontrollable infection.
Now I have no clue whether Frey also had a flu shot or vaccine against pneumonia somewhere along the way, but one can get various strains of pneumonia.
Nosocomial infections people get while in a medical facility can be deadlier than any bugs free floating outdoors.
The family is claiming he died from improperly treated ulcerative colitis. The doctor and hospital are claiming he himself was responsible for the outcome. Lawsuit in progress. Was he even taking the prescribed meds?
Quote:
As to your point about "death as caused by the immunosuppressant drugs. And that's a big no no for the drug manufacturer.", so many of the biologics people are treated with today can have such an effect.
So when we look at Risk vs. Reward again by taking XYZ for something that is debilitating or terminal (drug taken to extend time but not a cure) that is one thing.
But I recall seeing some ad for toenail fungus a while back, and to paraphrase, it was touted as treating the problem from the inside, at the root of the problem.
Presumably it was more effective and quicker at getting rid of "unsightly fungus". However one of the advertised warnings was risk of cancer or infection that could be life threatening.
I wouldn't care if my line of work required bare feet or sandals (i.e. lifeguard) to where everyone looked at my fungus every day.
I am not going to risk my health/life for something so superficial/cosmetic.
Yet many of the drugs that reduce inflammatory reactions the body has (GI, joints, and dermal) do in fact carry such risks.
That is why the benefit to risk ratio has to be defined for the individual patient.
Quote:
You did not point out where anything I said was inaccurate or misleading. Yes the day may come where individuals can be screen/tested to make sure a vaccine/medication will not be harmful, but that is unlikely in my view. The cost alone would be a massive use of limited resources. So we do the clinical trials and studies along with monitoring of patients reactions to various medical treatments.
All that is fine with me, as it serves most people well.
As to Frey, I have little doubt his family were very adamant about having RA as the primary cause of death. They were very upset with the medical care he received to try and save him. While I know very little about the case beyond what has been reported, the question is, was his RA drug being continued even when he fell ill.
If so, did it's continued use contribute to the inability to stop the progression of the more serious and life threatening condition they were trying to treat.
I just hope when everything is determined, it is not some out of court settlement with a gag/non disclosure order.
See my comment above. The family is claiming he died from improperly treated ulcerative colitis. It would be nice to know the facts.
2010: death rate for secondary pneumonia was 36.6. From influenza was 0.2.
ALL 186 would be vulnerable to this. You were there during those threads back then. Same story over & over: Had flu. Went to doctor. Sent home. Found dead from pneumonia.
Should have been admitted & treated for pneumonia but many didn't even get a chest x-ray. They could have saved a lot but fewer deaths from 'flu' = lower demand for the vaccine.
Those 186 deaths were from confirmed influenza. Pediatric influenza deaths are reportable.
If you do not get influenza, you do not get the secondary pneumonia. Influenza is the root cause of the death.
Please note that 13% of the children in this study died within one day of the onset of symptoms. It is not that incompetent doctors are sending patients with flu home to die.
There's a reason you didn't quote me on the bold, and that is because I never said it. You are deliberately telling an untruth about me. Here are my two posts about vaccine safety:
If you can't represent my position honestly, I am not going to respond.
Wow, talk about changing your tune! The good thing is we can go back and see exactly what you said in post #18 in this thread you said as part of your post, "There is no evidence that the MMR or any vaccine is unsafe."
Now you are claiming you didn't say that, so everyone let's go back and read post #18 from Katarina Witt. Also, Suzy Q, since you had trouble finding it as you indicated in your previous posts, I did the leg work and found it for you.
I provided evidence even from the CDC's own website that discredited Katarina's claim in post #18 in my previous posts. I also provided evidence from the Vaccine Compensation Fund that would indicate a contradiction to this same claim.
Just for clarification so people can see the agenda and disinformation here, let's see how it unfolded:
Katarina's original post in post #18:
.........."There is no evidence that the MMR or any vaccine is unsafe."
My response to Katarina's post #18:
"You said in an earlier post that all vaccines were completely safe including the MMR vaccine. I provided two separate posts in this thread that discredited your claim from the CDC's own website about potentially severe side effects from specific vaccines (including the MMR vaccine). So there's that, but I would also like you to explain why there is a National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program if they (vaccines) are all so thoroughly tested and safe?
Currently this compensation program has paid out approximately $3,884,371,778.86 to petitioners. Wonder why?"
Katarina's response to my previous post:
"There's a reason you didn't quote me on the bold, and that is because I never said it. You are deliberately telling an untruth about me.............
If you can't represent my position honestly, I am not going to respond."
LOL. So who is not representing their position here honestly? Go back and read what you said in post #18.
Of course, the fear factor and it might be YOU which they try with flu vaccination. Is that working? If the majority of we elderly didn't survive these childhood diseases, there would be no younger generations.
'The majority' might be good enough for you, but that still means thousands of kids dying unnecessarily or being crippled for life in various ways from diseases which are easily preventable through vaccination. You might say it's fine that those kids have their lives ended or ruined because 'everybody should suffer, that's life' but I disagree.
The amount of people with contraindications likely would compromise herd immunity, so it may be preferred that we just stay an acceptable loss.
Since 999,999 out of 1,000,000 people have no serious adverse reactions to vaccines it is highly unlikely that the number of people with contraindications will ever be higher than one in a million. That will not compromise herd immunity.
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Originally Posted by Jo48
Obviously, Katarina and Suzy Q, you know that Herd Immunity does not only refer to vaccinated immunity. You both are in the generation of acquired natural immunity to measles. Having these diseases also confers lifetime immunity and does contribute to the "herd" as well, as with our elderly generation. Every person who caught measles during that Disney and NY Measles now has measles immunity for life as well.
Mothers only pass on their measles immunity to their babies in the first six month of life? Since I caught measles at 6 months old, I will grant you that. However, there is a caveat to that. My measles immune Mom never breastfed me. Antibodies to disease are passed through breast milk to babies beyond 6 months old. Dispute that. All of my friends and classmates caught measles much older than I did. Maybe because their mothers breastfed them beyond 6 months?
While I cannot remember my own measles, rubella, mumps, or chicken pox under 2 years old, I certainly saw it enough in my friends and classmates growing up, I can tell the difference between a measles and chicken pox rash. Today doctors can't????
I do not care if you call elderly me an anti-vaxxer. Call it my religion or philosophical beliefs, but I believe that all human beings were meant to get sick, suffer, and die. Cannot quote specific verses, but I do know that the Bible talks about this. Medical Science thinks they have now become God where they can and want to eliminate what all living beings were meant to have.
Most of us would prefer for our kids not to die in childhood - and preferably not before we ourselves die, preferably at an old age.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice
Your behavior is begging and bullying. All anyone has to do is read your posts. Don't like it? Change your behavior.
Stop advertising for vaccines every thread you start and every post you add. [beg]
Stop yelling about how uninformed/stupid people who choose not to vaccinate are. [bully]
/shrug/
Stating facts is neither begging nor bullying.
Where has the word stupid been used except in your post?
Quote:
Originally Posted by heart84
Wow, talk about changing your tune! The good thing is we can go back and see exactly what you said in post #18 in this thread you said as part of your post, "There is no evidence that the MMR or any vaccine is unsafe."
Now you are claiming you didn't say that, so everyone let's go back and read post #18 from Katarina Witt. Also, Suzy Q, since you had trouble finding it as you indicated in your previous posts, I did the leg work and found it for you.
I provided evidence even from the CDC's own website that discredited Katarina's claim in post #18 in my previous posts. I also provided evidence from the Vaccine Compensation Fund that would indicate a contradiction to this same claim.
Still want to claim you didn't say it?
She did not say "100% safe", did she?
The presence of side effects does not make a vaccine 100% unsafe, which is what you are implying.
The risk evaluation should be based on risks of the vaccine compared to risks of the disease the vaccine prevents, and for every vaccine the risk of the disease is much, much higher.
You are claiming vaccines are unsafe because they have "side effects" and totally ignoring the risks of vaccine preventable diseases.
The payout from the compensation fund supports the safety of vaccines: one claim paid per million doses administered.
Wow, talk about changing your tune! The good thing is we can go back and see exactly what you said in post #18 in this thread you said as part of your post, "There is no evidence that the MMR or any vaccine is unsafe."
Now you are claiming you didn't say that, so everyone let's go back and read post #18 from Katarina Witt. Also, Suzy Q, since you had trouble finding it as you indicated in your previous posts, I did the leg work and found it for you.
I provided evidence even from the CDC's own website that discredited Katarina's claim in post #18 in my previous posts. I also provided evidence from the Vaccine Compensation Fund that would indicate a contradiction to this same claim.
Still want to claim you didn't say it?
Every single medicine available has information on possible side effects no matter how rare. The fact is that the risks of any side effects are comprehensively outweighed by the benefits of vaccination. There is no serious science saying otherwise, only crank quackery shared repeatedly among the ignorant.
Wow, talk about changing your tune! The good thing is we can go back and see exactly what you said in post #18 in this thread you said as part of your post, "There is no evidence that the MMR or any vaccine is unsafe."
Now you are claiming you didn't say that, so everyone let's go back and read post #18 from Katarina Witt. Also, Suzy Q, since you had trouble finding it as you indicated in your previous posts, I did the leg work and found it for you.
I provided evidence even from the CDC's own website that discredited Katarina's claim in post #18 in my previous posts. I also provided evidence from the Vaccine Compensation Fund that would indicate a contradiction to this same claim.
Still want to claim you didn't say it?
OK, that one didn't come up in my search, probably because I used the word "safe" as you claimed I said that "that all vaccines were completely safe including the MMR vaccine." Fair enough. However, I stand by what I said. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...8#!po=0.510204 "There are at least six case reports of death among severely immunocompromised persons that have been linked to vaccine strain measles virus infection, including a case of vaccine associated pneumonitis in an immunocompromised person with HIV and a case of measles inclusion-body encephalitis in a 21-month-old child with primary immunodeficiency. CDC recommends screening prior to vaccination so that contraindications and precautions, including previously diagnosed immune system problems are identified."
This is in 56 years of measles vaccine. About 7 1/2 million doses of vaccine are given every year in the US. You do the math. That is an excellent safety record, safer than any other med I can think of. Here are the risks of death from some other common activities including taking aspirin: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-r...37156120070509
So, I didn't say "completely safe" as you alleged. There are many other things considered "safe" that have some risk. Here is an article about "unavoidably unsafe" products: https://injury.findlaw.com/product-l...e-product.html
You do not understand the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program at all. About 70% of the awards are table injuries, that is, the "injury" occurred in a time frame that the vaccine could have caused it. It's what is called "no fault". Perhaps you've heard of that? https://www.hrsa.gov/sites/default/f...njurytable.pdf
You do not understand the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program at all. About 70% of the awards are table injuries, that is, the "injury" occurred in a time frame that the vaccine could have caused it. It's what is called "no fault". Perhaps you've heard of that? https://www.hrsa.gov/sites/default/f...njurytable.pdf
And there is is, as predicted. Vaccines do not cause injury, the vaccine court just gives away billions of dollars for nothing.
Yes, I will second that as a genealogist, visiting many cemeteries, and tracing my family back to the 17th and 14th Century.
Some of us have real life experiences that go contrary to the propaganda,
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