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Old 02-03-2020, 08:58 PM
 
7,300 posts, read 3,399,266 times
Reputation: 4812

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarallel View Post
I think we need to keep clarifying:

It is not illegal to simply withhold funding.

What makes it illegal is the corrupt intent.
Appealing only to "corrupt intent" further undermines the democrat impeachment narrative. It doesn't bolster it.

There is nothing weaker in the narrative than claims as to "corrupt intent".

The world knows that Biden was engaged in graft in Ukraine. Its not a secret nor is it contested by anyone but those trying to avoid prison or defend Biden's candidacy. Its open information. Graft that tainted the aid in question that Biden was involved in securing.

Subsequently, there were two options:

1. POTUS mandating / forcing an investigation into Biden's corruption.
2. Biden's corruption being protected because he is running for President.

The only people who see option 2 as reasonable or moral have something to gain or protect.

The rational world would want an investigation into Biden's open graft to be forced.

US tax money as well as our ability to vet leaders is at stake. This is not some pee pee disinfomation tale purchased from the Kremlin out of last-minute desperation. Biden's graft is official and documented. It happened. Not even Biden denies the payments.

Trump was the only one with power to force a foreign investigation of Biden on the soil on which the corruption took place, and this is the action which Democrats label "corrupt intent".

In the real world, citizens don't get to avoid prosecution and label that prosecution "corrupt intent" because they are also going to run for prosecutor.

This is a black and white situation. The democrats impeached the President to protect corruption and their candidate, who will lose regardless. And this is why Trump will not be removed from Office.

The past three years of democrat invented narrative and distortion of the system for party gain is a primary sign of the beginning of the decline of the progressive party over the next generation. Get ready for it.

Other signs of desperation, which are a sign of decline:

1. Propaganda claims that "democracy" is defined by progressive agendas, and that any departure from those agendas is a decline in democracy. The implication is that the democrats are justified in taking extra-democratic / revolutionary action to achieve their agendas and therefore to "restore democracy".

2. Claims that opposition voters are corrupted by ever present phantom influence / trolls and thereby lack free agency. Which implies a corruption of democracy because democrats aren't realizing their desired outcomes.

Its rather equivalent to "the other side must be crazy because they aren't on our side, and so they must lack free agency".

The Democrat tack is to head toward revolutionary action should they begin to lose too many elections. Losing too many elections may start to happen as their agendas get ever more extreme.

We realize its difficult to precisely schedule the convergence of both the timing of popular tolerance for social subversion and decades of preparation for the timing of the desired results.

ie: Democrats are frustrated that the decades of media led social degeneracy hasn't yet led to the vast majority of the populace being okay with open borders and grown men in the little girl's room.

They became so frustrated with the lack of movement on even gay marriage that they had to legislate for it from the judiciary, which means that even that will cause social simmering for decades, if not permanently, and therefore it may not hold over the long term. Heck, the democrats are beginning to show signs of having trouble even with desegregation: also a deep and broad-acting social change that was legislated from the judiciary and executive branch. And therefore which was socially forced. And the trouble that they are having is not only coming from the Right. If they can't effectively hold desegregation after mandated change, what hope do they have for their current agendas in opposition to the populace's wishes?

All of the nonsense propaganda, along the lines of the above mentioned tactics in points 1 and 2, is pre-revolutionary foundation for that future option of extra democratic revolution.

Its purpose is to distort reality to maintain the gains that are slipping on an otherwise straightforward field wherein voters are simply voting for their real interests and democracy is defined by the Will of the people: whatever it is.

Current DNC distortions of reality are equivalent to that pre-retirement athlete taking a double dose of temporary acting steroids before he's put out to pasture.

Which is an action of a desperate party with a vision of its future free-fall decline.

Last edited by golgi1; 02-03-2020 at 09:28 PM..
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Old 02-03-2020, 09:13 PM
 
Location: Denver and Boston
2,071 posts, read 2,211,085 times
Reputation: 3831
Sure it was probably in violation of some law. But it was not a crime, it was the political equivalent of a speed ticket. The only people that don't exceed the speed limit occasionally are people that don't drive.

Last edited by Robert5; 02-03-2020 at 10:28 PM..
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Old 02-03-2020, 10:11 PM
 
Location: Del Rio, TN
39,875 posts, read 26,521,399 times
Reputation: 25774
Wasn't the story that Trump withheld aid until Ukraine conducted an investigation into Biden's corruption? Ukraine got the aid-where is the investigation?

Now, the other story is that Biden said he would withhold aid until Ukraine stopped a corruption investigation into the company that employed his son. He DID withhold the aid until Ukraine dropped the investigation.

Which one is...proof of corruption?
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Old 02-03-2020, 10:23 PM
 
Location: West Coast U.S.A.
2,911 posts, read 1,360,787 times
Reputation: 3979
Quote:
Originally Posted by trobesmom View Post
I wonder if McConnell, GOP, Trump supporters will even care that Trump's withholding Ukraine was illegal? Seems illegality is in the eye of the beholder these days.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/tru...ffice-n1117031
No. All they care about is winning (make that: doing whatever it takes to get what they want).
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Old 02-04-2020, 04:27 AM
 
34,619 posts, read 21,627,209 times
Reputation: 22232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angry-Koala View Post
No. All they care about is winning (make that: doing whatever it takes to get what they want).
The aid was delivered PRIOR to the deadline.
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Old 02-04-2020, 05:30 AM
 
Location: East Lansing, MI
28,353 posts, read 16,389,243 times
Reputation: 10467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert5 View Post
Sure it was probably in violation of some law. But it was not a crime...


crime
noun
an action or omission that constitutes an offense that may be prosecuted by the state and is punishable by law.

You wanna try that one again, Bob?
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Old 02-04-2020, 05:31 AM
 
Location: East Lansing, MI
28,353 posts, read 16,389,243 times
Reputation: 10467
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
The aid was delivered PRIOR to the deadline.
But not until AFTER the WH was briefed about the Whistle Blower complaint....
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Old 02-04-2020, 05:33 AM
 
Location: East Lansing, MI
28,353 posts, read 16,389,243 times
Reputation: 10467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
Wasn't the story that Trump withheld aid until Ukraine conducted an investigation into Biden's corruption? Ukraine got the aid-where is the investigation?

Now, the other story is that Biden said he would withhold aid until Ukraine stopped a corruption investigation into the company that employed his son. He DID withhold the aid until Ukraine dropped the investigation.

Which one is...proof of corruption?
No matter how often you repeat that trope, it's still demonstrably false.

So, the governments of the EU, plus the leadership of World Bank and the International Monetary Fund were all super worried about Hunter's job, too?



Also, the investigation into Burisma was never "stopped". It was then, and still is, dormant - but open. It was "dormant" before Shokin was forced out.
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