The progressive left is lying about Scandinavia (enemies, Canada, border)
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The left is fixated on Scandinavia because it matches American progressives' white skin color.
True. The fact is the Scandinavian countries are wealthy through the industry and innovation of their capitalist innovators and a thrifty work culture. US Leftists lie continuously about everything including about Socialism to our ignorant young who have been indoctrinated into believing their lies,,,indeed Demonic.
You want Socialism, you need to look at North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela, and Laos as your models.
Scandinavia's Capitalist countries that employ high taxes to provide a large social net....the USA has a similar system with less of a social net and lower taxes.
Scandinavia is no more "collectivist" than the US, though people do exhibit more social responsibility.
Janteloven is sort of a humorous take on Lutheran pietistic values. You find similar attitudes in any Lutheran congregation in the US.
No, Scandinavia is more collectivist than the U.S. Just because it is a humorous take on Lutheran pietistic values doesn’t mean that there isn’t an element of truth to it. What percentage of our population is derived from this Lutheran subset, nowhere near the proportion they have. Again, I’m talking about generalities across the countries and why different cultural values could lead to different outcomes in different areas of life.
It’s a good thing no one is advocating for Socialism.....but instead what every other advanced country has, universal healthcare and lessening the influence of big money in politics and our lives. The U.S political system is far too influenced by big money....more so than other developed countries.
The US's social welfare is more patchy and dysfunctional.
I know Finland has some progressive social policies, even more than Sweden. They seem more willing to consider new ideas and are not limited by social tradition.
So now the onus shifts from "We need to be like Scandinavia" to "We are like Scandinavia, but need to perform better."
Ah, the ever-shifting goalposts.
As for "new ideas", the USA was built on new ideas or have you never noticed?
True. The fact is the Scandinavian countries are wealthy through the industry and innovation of their capitalist innovators and a thrifty work culture. US Leftists lie continuously about everything including about Socialism to our ignorant young who have been indoctrinated into believing their lies,,,indeed Demonic.
You want Socialism, you need to look at North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela, and Laos as your models.
Scandinavia's Capitalist countries that employ high taxes to provide a large social net....the USA has a similar system with less of a social net and lower taxes.
So if these leftists seek to emulate Scandinavia, then wouldn’t it be because they want a mixed economy and not socialism. I’m more centrist when it comes to this, but acting like a lot of these leftists want Venezuela when they say they want Scandinavia, means that a lot are cool with Capitalism, just they want to expand the safety net. There are some in the ranks that like the Soviet Union and it’s system, which doesn’t play well to their image though.
I like the idea of a stronger social safety net, emulating Scandinavia. I’m just concerned with what effects it will have in our economy and on the middle class, and how well it will work here. I don’t think a lot of the proposals will play out well and could damage the middle class and the economic viability of this country.
I think the American obsession with Scandinavia is bizarre and getting more so by the day.
The Scandinavian countries and America are more or less the same. Yes, the same.
Democratic, Free Market, and known for extensive Social Welfare states. Yes, the USA has a social welfare state. Anyone who does not know that is either daft or feigning ignorance.
Scandinavia's is marginally more generous, but they pay more in taxes and are cool with it. The vast majority of Americans, including liberals, would balk at that. There it is.
We have some cultural differences. Scandinavia is clearly more skewed towards collective harmony while America revels in rugged individualism. Neither is wrong, just different.
And finally, yes I have been to Scandinavia. Wonderful countries, great peoples. But far from utopia. I witnessed crime, poverty, racism, and a level of alcoholism that would make Mel Gibson blush.
Well put. I have never been to Scandinavia, but my husband is second-generation Swedish-American, and I've seen the culture. I have a book "Letters from the Promised Land", a collection of letters written back to Sweden by immigrants. Very interesting, people pointing out the difference. Apparently lots more drinking in Sweden, though DH's family doesn't drink.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DT113876
The US's social welfare is more patchy and dysfunctional.
I know Finland has some progressive social policies, even more than Sweden. They seem more willing to consider new ideas and are not limited by social tradition.
What a joke! Their culture is older than ours.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 03-05-2020 at 09:40 AM..
I like the idea of a stronger social safety net, emulating Scandinavia. I’m just concerned with what effects it will have in our economy and on the middle class, and how well it will work here. I don’t think a lot of the proposals will play out well and could damage the middle class and the economic viability of this country.
Check out Canada, they have a very strong middle class, but the rich are not as noticeable. Also less poverty.
I am puzzled by seeing how many people are enamored by Nordic countries without having set foot on any of them, just by getting their info on the Net or through Bernie Sanders.
In spite of the immigrants coming to Sweden the country is still predominantly white and the others have more strict immigration policies and are even more white.
The first thing that strikes you when you land there is how expensive things are . Norway is the highest with $50 pizza and $12 beer while Finland was relatively affordable. I found out that most locals don't frequent restaurants as much as in USA. For them it is an occasional luxury. The Norwegian workers usually pack their bare dry lunches every day called malpakke. In Finland some employers give a set lunch coupon between 7-10 euros. We found that out from one Indian restaurant owner whose entrees cost 15+ euros but had a couple of fixed price lunch items that the patrons could order with their coupons.
People are paid more than USA at the lower end and this helps them afford the high cost of living and high taxation that affects even the lower class. But even with being frugal they don't have much disposable income to afford more than occasional luxuries. The one they indulge in is the cheap package tours to Caribbean / Mediterranean during their harsh winters. The weather for 6+ months is gloomy and I doubt that many Americans can tolerate that.
People tend to behave similarly and follow the same societal norms. It is very rare to see them smile or hear them laugh unless they are drunk. If you are sociable person, you will be a fish out of water there.
Daycare is heavily subsidized and in Finland the formal education begins at age 7. So lot of playing and socializing till then. I found a few American style private kindergartens in Helsinki that were touting formal education starting at age 5 for mothers who prefer that. Of course, for a good fee.
These countries are not bad but they are not utopia either. They have their good and bad points. We should not try to blindly copy them for their model will not be suitable for US. But I have no issues with with trying out some of their programs in a limited scale here to see how it goes. I suspect there is more chances of success in upper Minnesota than in inner city Philly.
I am puzzled by seeing how many people are enamored by Nordic countries without having set foot on any of them, just by getting their info on the Net or through Bernie Sanders.
In spite of the immigrants coming to Sweden the country is still predominantly white and the others have more strict immigration policies and are even more white.
The first thing that strikes you when you land there is how expensive things are . Norway is the highest with $50 pizza and $12 beer while Finland was relatively affordable. I found out that most locals don't frequent restaurants as much as in USA. For them it is an occasional luxury. The Norwegian workers usually pack their bare dry lunches every day called malpakke. In Finland some employers give a set lunch coupon between 7-10 euros. We found that out from one Indian restaurant owner whose entrees cost 15+ euros but had a couple of fixed price lunch items that the patrons could order with their coupons.
People are paid more than USA at the lower end and this helps them afford the high cost of living and high taxation that affects even the lower class. But even with being frugal they don't have much disposable income to afford more than occasional luxuries. The one they indulge in is the cheap package tours to Caribbean / Mediterranean during their harsh winters. The weather for 6+ months is gloomy and I doubt that many Americans can tolerate that.
People tend to behave similarly and follow the same societal norms. It is very rare to see them smile or hear them laugh unless they are drunk. If you are sociable person, you will be a fish out of water there.
Daycare is heavily subsidized and in Finland the formal education begins at age 7. So lot of playing and socializing till then. I found a few American style private kindergartens in Helsinki that were touting formal education starting at age 5 for mothers who prefer that. Of course, for a good fee.
These countries are not bad but they are not utopia either. They have their good and bad points. We should not try to blindly copy them for their model will not be suitable for US. But I have no issues with with trying out some of their programs in a limited scale here to see how it goes. I suspect there is more chances of success in upper Minnesota than in inner city Philly.
They have to artificially inflate all prices, since the tax rate in a lot of those countries approaches 90%
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