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It is truly mind blowing how many defenders there are for the US' ridiculously bad health scare system......
The largest economy in the world can't provide healthcare but has trillions for 20 year wars to blow up goat herders in the middle East. This is the decline of American hegemony because we flushed it all down the toilet on moronic adventures abroad. We are now England around 1910.
Many of us are anti-war, but the problem is that annual cost for health care for all would equal the total cost of a 20 year war. So, where does the money come from to pay for it?
Many of us are anti-war, but the problem is that annual cost for health care for all would equal the total cost of a 20 year war. So, where does the money come from to pay for it?
The cost of healthcare would actually fall. As people get more preventive care and won't avoid procedures just because they can't afford them, the overall population would be healthier thus reducing costs. But like people have said, there is more profit from keeping people sick and not healthy.
The cost of healthcare would actually fall. As people get more preventive care and won't avoid procedures just because they can't afford them, the overall population would be healthier thus reducing costs.
BS. The Dems said the same thing about Obamacare and ER usage. They insisted health care costs would fall because fewer people would have to resort to the ER for health care. The exact opposite happened. ER use skyrocketed, driving health care costs even higher.
Just remember, Obama and the Democrats promised us that passing the ACA would fix the healthcare system.
They lied.
Totally untrue. The ACA was a compromise and viewed as the best the Democrats could get at the time. I think it proves that Congress is never going to come up with an optimum healthcare system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_N_1962
You are an idiot to think govt is going to stop anything. It's about managing panic and govt only seems to feed into that
Leadership in the government is the only thin that can stop panic. Bush did that after 911. Roosevelt and Churchill did that in WWII. Trump is totally incapable of doing that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizrap
Exactly. Someone else also wondered (perhaps in another thread) how did Obama divide us. The ACA hit the middle class hard—higher copays, premiums and deductibles. For the working poor and low end of the middle class, it’s a great law. For the rich, a nothing burger. They can afford to pay.
Obama divided us by class lines; I always thought the Democrats were for the middle class but that law ignored us.
All health insurance costs are increasing at a ridiculous rate but it had noting to do with the ACA. Insurance companies promote excess spending. Most people would be shocked to find the number of people employed in hospitals and doctors offices to deal with the insurance bureaucracy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RowingFiend
My siblings were forced out of their private plans and into government plans with $5K deductibles before any benefits kicked in. That's on top of the monthly premiums they had to pay. Essentially they had to pay exorbitant amounts for health insurance that they would never be able to use unless a catastrophe happened.
It was one massive wealth redistribution scheme to penalize those who work for a living and to subsidize those who don't.
Why were they forced out of their private plans? This doesn't pass the smell test.
Last edited by villageidiot1; 03-16-2020 at 08:12 AM..
Many of us are anti-war, but the problem is that annual cost for health care for all would equal the total cost of a 20 year war. So, where does the money come from to pay for it?
It costs that much because America's health scare system sucks. Period. So much overhead, so much profit oriented businesses in the system, so many highly paid CEOs and middle managers etc. etc. There is just an inordinate amount of BS between the doctor and the patient that is completely unnecessary.
BS. The Dems said the same thing about Obamacare and ER usage. They insisted health care costs would fall because fewer people would have to resort to the ER for health care. The exact opposite happened. ER use skyrocketed, driving health care costs even higher.
It isn't BS. Of course there would be a rush on services because people would get what they always needed. Are you suggesting that ERs would continue at initial levels even as people get healthier? Does that sound logical?
I didn't see crowded ERs before this pandemic. So, that tells me things normalized.
Yes. there would be an initial flood of people but that would level off after people are able to maintain healthier lifestyles.
Right now, you have people sick because they can't afford a hospital visit or even urgent care.
But to throw out affordable healthcare because there would be an initial crowding of ER rooms is short sighted. I'm pretty sure a large number of those people could have been serviced at outpatient and urgent care facilities and not just the ER.
Healthcare as it stands now is UNNECESSARILY TOO EXPENSIVE. No matter how you look at it. No matter how you try to argue against a more affordable solution.
Healthcare as we know it is broken. It is like trying to convince flat-earthers that the earth is a globe. Some people have latched on to political talking points just because the issue is bipartisan. Both Democrats AND Republicans know that the current healthcare system is too costly as a private system. But Republicans love votes more than their own constituents' financial well-being.
I hate to get political here. But in Trumps first few years of office, there has been no authentic push to reform the healthcare system. Instead, we got tax cuts for the wealthy.
Today we are in a medical crises. An excellent time for Republicans to push their beloved solution for affordable healthcare for all. But you hear crickets. Because they have no solution.
It costs that much because America's health scare system sucks. Period. So much overhead, so much profit oriented businesses in the system, so many highly paid CEOs and middle managers etc. etc. There is just an inordinate amount of BS between the doctor and the patient that is completely unnecessary.
Nah, it's the 'gubment.
Does anyone else get tired of the rabid ideologues on this site? It's almost bot-like how their answer to everything is "government man-bad".
Government is not the answer to everything and many areas of our system need trimming...but in the case of health coverage, our system is inferior to government run systems in other developed nations. It's these rabid ideologues who resist every attempt to change it, basically doing the bidding of the massively profitable insurance companies. The yahoos "rugged individualism" makes a handful of people rich and leaves citizens with an inferior system.
It isn't BS. Of course there would be a rush on services because people would get what they always needed. Are you suggesting that ERs would continue at initial levels even as people get healthier? Does that sound logical?
I didn't see crowded ERs before this pandemic. So, that tells me things normalized.
Yes. there would be an initial flood of people but that would level off after people are able to maintain healthier lifestyles.
Right now, you have people sick because they can't afford a hospital visit or even urgent care.
But to throw out affordable healthcare because there would be an initial crowding of ER rooms is short sighted. I'm pretty sure a large number of those people could have been serviced at outpatient and urgent care facilities and not just the ER.
Healthcare as it stands now is UNNECESSARILY TOO EXPENSIVE. No matter how you look at it. No matter how you try to argue against a more affordable solution.
Healthcare as we know it is broken. It is like trying to convince flat-earthers that the earth is a globe. Some people have latched on to political talking points just because the issue is bipartisan. Both Democrats AND Republicans know that the current healthcare system is too costly as a private system. But Republicans love votes more than their own constituents' financial well-being.
I hate to get political here. But in Trumps first few years of office, there has been no authentic push to reform the healthcare system. Instead, we got tax cuts for the wealthy.
Today we are in a medical crises. An excellent time for Republicans to push their beloved solution for affordable healthcare for all. But you hear crickets. Because they have no solution.
It's partisanship and ideology: The Trump base, the hard core talk radio fan base, are fueled by anti-government, anti collectivist ideology. No matter what the situation is, the answer CANNOT be a collective answer..unless it's through a church charity. That is ok. There are a dozen or so regular posters here who fit this mold 100%. They don't care about whether a policy works or not, they only know they hate the (non-GOP) government, liberals, and Democrats, and dammit even if the current system is terrible, their ain't nothing worse than those things, so stay with the status quo. Their biggest fear is that the policy would be a huge success like medicare and social security..they hate those things too, purely on ideological grounds. Government man bad.
Does anyone else get tired of the rabid ideologues on this site? It's almost bot-like how their answer to everything is "government man-bad".
Government is not the answer to everything and many areas of our system need trimming...but in the case of health coverage, our system is inferior to government run systems in other developed nations. It's these rabid ideologues who resist every attempt to change it, basically doing the bidding of the massively profitable insurance companies. The yahoos "rugged individualism" makes a handful of people rich and leaves citizens with an inferior system.
Not ideologues. Just people that demand better from their government AND private industry. It makes no sense to shame government, but to let private industry run the American middle-class under the ground. Both need to be held accountable.
Private industry can do MUCH better. Bankrupting America for profit is not better.
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