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Alotta people gonna die. Alotta more people gonna suffer and die if we keep on with this lockdown crap. Wear gloves, a mask, suit of armor, whatever. Go back to work. Keep away from coworkers and wash up frequently.
If hospitals can stay open, and the entire staff hasn't kicked the bucket, then pretty much every other business can be open.
How exactly will people die with lockdown? If we enacted the Freedom Dividend rather than go with four months of unemployment on steroids and one-time stimulus check, we would not have to worry about people protesting to go back to work. If we had a far better Payment Protection Plan and more funding, we would have less issues too. The PPE would be much better if the Senate knew to compromise too...
It is asinine to compare hospitals to the rest of work. Hospitals still lack PPE and first responders have it even harder getting the PPE than the hospitals. Arizona fire departments resorted to using disposable ponchos. That and hospital staff do tend to be fairly prone to virus. No firm stats exist but some studies show 20% https://www.usnews.com/news/national...ve-coronavirus
You truly are out of touch with reality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oh come on!
let's just keep the country shut down for 12 more months
and watch a lotta people die of poverty and bankruptcy
just so you can duck a cough and fever.
for most people, it's still just gonna be a cough.
How much is that worth to you? $10000 maybe?
99.x% of people who get corona do not die from it. You don't like those odds?
Even if we put you under house arrest for 6 months, where you can't even go outside to buy groceries.... The moment lockdown is lifted and you step outside, you still have a good chance of catching corona.
I don't know people who honestly want it shut down 12 more months. I just don't. The only way that could even be possible is if we have a Freedom Dividend. The biggest thing I find with this virus is that there is a lot of the iceberg submerged still. We are only realizing the kidney failure issues. We didn't know for months just how community spread this virus can get. Some of that is from bad intel from China (whether it was by design or didn't have proper testing like we don't either.)
The fact is we are woefully underprepared to return to normal. We are said to be at 2% of the contact tracers we need. We are still under prepared for tests and don't have enough lab techs to process tests. The vaccines are at least a year away but there is hope that the MERS and oral Polio vaccines could potentially work.
Our healthcare system is being overloaded with cases. So if you think this virus is no big deal, please go volunteer somewhere to help. The sooner we have some sort of handle on this, the sooner we can open.
I am definitely struggling emotionally not being able to see my boyfriend (who normally lives with me part time), take care of my grandmother, or visit my niece and nephew. Living alone through this bites. I'm incredibly concerned about my job in higher ed and what's going to happen if the students can't come back in the fall. It's all compounded by my PTSD from experiencing cancer and my generalized anxiety around money.
But am I going to budge? Nope. Not a chance. Boyfriend knows we might not be able to see each other until June or even July. I hate it. But he doesn't want to put me at risk and he, living somewhere with next to no cases, doesn't want to pick something up here and bring it to the family business and infect his elderly parents or his middle aged workers.
We have to do this right now and buy ourselves time. Time to produce FAR more tests than we have now, produce serology tests, make more PPE and medications, and figure out a medication that can reduce time in the hospital or even prevent hospitalization.
How exactly will people die with lockdown? If we enacted the Freedom Dividend rather than go with four months of unemployment on steroids and one-time stimulus check, we would not have to worry about people protesting to go back to work. If we had a far better Payment Protection Plan and more funding, we would have less issues too. The PPE would be much better if the Senate knew to compromise too...
It is asinine to compare hospitals to the rest of work. Hospitals still lack PPE and first responders have it even harder getting the PPE than the hospitals. Arizona fire departments resorted to using disposable ponchos. That and hospital staff do tend to be fairly prone to virus. No firm stats exist but some studies show 20% https://www.usnews.com/news/national...ve-coronavirus
You truly are out of touch with reality.
I don't know people who honestly want it shut down 12 more months. I just don't. The only way that could even be possible is if we have a Freedom Dividend. The biggest thing I find with this virus is that there is a lot of the iceberg submerged still. We are only realizing the kidney failure issues. We didn't know for months just how community spread this virus can get. Some of that is from bad intel from China (whether it was by design or didn't have proper testing like we don't either.)
The fact is we are woefully underprepared to return to normal. We are said to be at 2% of the contact tracers we need. We are still under prepared for tests and don't have enough lab techs to process tests. The vaccines are at least a year away but there is hope that the MERS and oral Polio vaccines could potentially work.
Well, China is saying their numbers are skyrocketing again...so that is likely to happen in the US in a couple/few months too (since we are behind them on this roughly 2-3 months).
Our governor talked about the re opening plans created by the whitehouse, but he said one of the conditions is an area has have 2 weeks straight of falling infected numbers, (our numbers are still rising every day here), he also said, realistically it will probably be another 2-3 months before restrictions can be lifted and places to start opening, people are whining and crying, but this is the plan coming from Trump, so they cannot blame it on the states this time!
The true number of Americans involuntarily forced into poverty is at least 3 times higher than any reported unemployment numbers. Of 7 people I know who have lost their jobs, 5 are still trying to even apply for benefits due to system overloads. When spouses and children of the unemployed are added in, close to a third of the US population has been punished. Numbers like this have not been seen since the Great Depression in the 1930’s.
Presently, the health needs of the few override the rights of the many. It is like some weird form of reverse eminent domain we are living in. This needs to change to the rights of the many override the needs of the few. If you are high risk, you must stay home or protect yourself if you go out. This is the sad reality of how people with immune disorders have lived for years. It’s called survival.
Every single person we see on TV telling the peasants to patiently wait for their own good is still getting paid. 100 million Americans have just been kicked to the curb. The anger boiling is far greater than any Civil Rights or Vietnam protest from the 60’s or anything this country has seen since the 1800’s.
None of these people will remember or care about the virus, China or timelines in February, because those things didn’t directly ruin their lives, the lockdown decrees of the governors did.
Millions of Americans are in the most desperate times of their lives and some may act out criminally in frustration. I predict these sort of things will dominate the news before long if things don't change and I pray people will obey the law and that sort of unrest doesn't happen.
They have nowhere to go everyday. Their lives are falling apart and the governors and media, still getting paid, talk about "new normals" someday?? It is a powder keg
Here in Florida all we heard was how horrible it was going to be we should've shut down earlier, our gov is a moron, etc., etc., we have so many vulnerable and elderly ... oh boy ... wer'e gonna get it. Posters were GLEEFULLY predicting the numbers of cases and deaths ... hahaha FLORIDA is GONNA GET IT. They are going to be SO SICK and have so many dead.
It's been a blip.
Deaths? As a percent of the entire population of the state? 0.002%.
It's a nothing burger. And we were going to be HORRIBLY AFFECTED!!!!!!!
Lies.
So, you are basically saying that all the precautions and efforts were VERY effective in stopping it from being something MUCH worse.
Sometimes the "opposing" team has decent and reasonable ideas, while "our team" is the opposite. It goes both ways.
Indeed, models are only as accurate as the available data. Input bad data, and the models will fail. It's unfair to blame the model-makers, unless of course these worthies claim accuracy, where accuracy is risibly impossible. And indeed, we can presumably agree, that the testing-problem is a pressing concern.
Not having had adequate data, it could be argued that:
1. Most governments failed to prepare.
2. Most governments over-reacted.
OK, but we entertain ourselves by hurling blame. But now what? Now we have a choice: start opening up society, business, commerce and daily life... or cower and hide. Yes, things could have been done better. And yes, some people in high places made dumb decisions. But now there is possibility of making at least partial amends.
So what shall we do... double down on past intransigence, bull-headedness and cant? Or try to fix things?
I don’t dispute that coronavirus was the proximate cause. Certainly, it matters. But it is the quintessential straw that breaks the proverbial camel’s back.
Here’s an analogy. A person is tired, and is driving late at night, in a car with malfunctioning brakes, and the headlights not working, in the rain. Suddenly a deer jumps into the road. The motorist can’t react in time, and even if he did, the brakes are no good. A collision ensues. The deer goes through the windshield, and the motorist dies. Did the deer kill the motorist? Well, yes. That’s the proximate cause. But insidious confluence of factors contributed. It could be argued, without much stretch, that the motorist was in serious trouble, deer or no deer.
We are crying about relative harm... the lives lost, vs. the harm entailed, in preserving those lives.
Let's try this analogy. Every day, hundreds of kids die around the world, from malnutrition, diarrhea, and all sorts of communicable diseases that the West solved in the early 20th century - which have outright cures, and not just vaccines. Well, it only takes a few dollars per child to address these problems, and to save their lives. Should the US government raise taxes on American taxpayers, to cover the cost of saving the lives of these children around the world? It would only be a buck or two, per American taxpayer - and come on, we're talking about the lives of children, who have a whole lifetime ahead of them. Well, why isn't Congress passing a new tax-bill for this purpose? Are they heartless? Inhumane? Coldly calculating?
As far as the world’s poor - the USA gave a lot of money to many countries until mrT showed up. We are able to help more. Actually if all the countries came together and stopped their BS -yes there’d be enough. But We have a free will / so until there a huge change, maybe this virus —where everyone’s survival depended on the next guy to include the elite and the poor alike, maybe then they will figure out we are all in the same boat and work as one . We will be forced to create a better system. The world - humanity is way out of balance.
Well, China is saying their numbers are skyrocketing again...so that is likely to happen in the US in a couple/few months too (since we are behind them on this roughly 2-3 months).
Our governor talked about the re opening plans created by the whitehouse, but he said one of the conditions is an area has have 2 weeks straight of falling infected numbers, (our numbers are still rising every day here), he also said, realistically it will probably be another 2-3 months before restrictions can be lifted and places to start opening, people are whining and crying, but this is the plan coming from Trump, so they cannot blame it on the states this time!
The stupid Trump supporters doing protests in several states will not care who said what, they'll protest anything but Trump. Ohio and Utah are among the states with stay at home order protests and both are run by Republicans. However, they feel these Republicans aren't doing enough for the economy.
I'm of the opinion it's time to start reopening America. I think there is enough real-world data to at least start looking at this.
Perhaps a zoned approach would be appropriate based on population density, current infection rates, and risk of future infections. Perhaps keep interstate and international travel to a minimum until a threshold of decreasing infections is met.
We, especially the governors of states, really need to start evaluating actual state-by state results against modeled predictions because we may be shooting ourselves in the foot by creating a one size fits all risk profile. The predictions seem to get less dire every week as real-world data is fed into the models. Really, I don't trust the models, their base assumptions, or the data being fed into them. If they are using the same type of model they used to predict global warming results, then I really give them very little credence. Governors should look at the actual, discernible patterns within their state and auditors need to be evaluating data for accuracy. For example, not everyone with CV dies from CV, but their deaths are being attributed to the virus and that is erroneously driving up the death rate.
Manufacturing is ramping up for PPE, distribution lines are sound thanks to our not so crumbling infrastructure. The malaria drug looks more and more promising every day. How are those conditions presented to the predictive models? Are they even used?
Has our fear of contracting the virus been used to shape a political outcome? I'm all about erring on the side of safety, but ruining the economy of the US with this near total shutdown is not a smart move for any political party. We need to get the nation off of its knees.
I'm thinking we should start looking at it. What do you think? Still too early?
The OP was created on 04/03/2020 just when fit was about to the shan.
ncguy50, imagine if you were the POUS issuing this executive order?
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