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The defense intends to prove it was sat least arguably a fair citizen arrest. They don't even have to be found correct. All they need to do is create enough murk to raise reasonable doubt. I think they will easily do so.
"Reasonable doubt" would not be about the law...which the prosecution will be sure to carefully explain to the jury.
Reasonable doubt would only be about the facts of the incident: Did or did not McMichaels actually know that Arbery had committed a crime at that moment?
Maybe, possibly, or he was looking at how the framing was done or where electrical outlets were place in the wall, etc. No one knows what he was looking at or why. Just like no sane person can fathom why the McMichaels did what they did either.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk
"Reasonable doubt" would not be about the law...which the prosecution will be sure to carefully explain to the jury.
Reasonable doubt would only be about the facts of the incident: Did or did not McMichaels actually know that Arbery had committed a crime at that moment?
I don't think it has to be "at the moment". For example, if you're jogging on a trial and witness a man attempting to rape a woman and you scare him off, and then weeks later you're on the same trail again and notice a man in the bushes you believe to be the same man, you can affect a citizen's arrest.
"Reasonable doubt" would not be about the law...which the prosecution will be sure to carefully explain to the jury.
Reasonable doubt would only be about the facts of the incident: Did or did not McMichaels actually know that Arbery had committed a crime at that moment?
It would be more like: would a reasonable person conclude that Arbery committed a felony that necessitated citizens arrest.
The standpoint of what was going on in the McMichael's heads is unimportant to their conviction.
I don't think it has to be "at the moment". For example, if you're jogging on a trial and witness a man attempting to rape a woman and you scare him off, and then weeks later you're on the same trail again and notice a man in the bushes you believe to be the same man, you can affect a citizen's arrest.
Thats a weak analogy and even more false comparison.
Arbery was observed looking around. The worst crime he committed at that point was a trespass in an unoccupied building that was under construction.
Witnessing a rape and then seeing the rapist again? That is an entirely different situation.
I saw a kid ride through the bottom part of my property on his bike. Not once but several times. Should I have chased him with my truck? Armed and ready to shoot if he resisted? That is exactly what the McMichaels did.
By the way, the kid in question was an 18 year old jerk, that the entire neighborhood was annoyed with. No one chased him, no one shot him. The police did arrest him when he was 22 for selling meth.
Many people were charged for battery or false arrest enacting citizens arrest if the person they're arresting is not convicted. Reasonable doubt differs from person to person, I don't have a doubt that the majority of people will find the McMichaels had no cause chasing someone down with firearms from observing them trespassing or even stealing something small.
Except that they still have to prove that McMichaels even saw Arbery trespassing...that day.
Gregory McMichael was at home at 230 Satilla Dr, Brunswick, GA, at the moment he reported seeing Arbery "hauling a**" past his house. The house under construction is 219 Satilla Dr.
You can do a Google Earth walk-through from 230 Satilla Dr to 2019 Satilla Dr to determine if McMichael might have serendipitously been looking far enough down the wooded street to have seen Arbery actually leave the building at 219 at that moment...or if he merely presumed that Arbery had been in the building because he'd seen Arbery in the video before. Having done the Google Earth walkthrough...I don't think so.
And let me point out that the prosecution has witnesses of Arbery being a regular many times before in that area, with one woman saying in effect that she could set her clock by Arbery's appearances.
Quote:
But the more McMichaels dig their own grave by citing that they saw Arbery entering that building before, a clever prosecutor could get a 2nd degree murder charge.
Exactly.
Last edited by Ralph_Kirk; 05-14-2020 at 06:58 PM..
I'm interested in banks and government buildings. How do you think that would work out for me if I just wondered into them without permission when they were supposed to be empty?
If the owner called the police then that is up to the owner, in this case the owner did not make a police report.
Yes, I imagine he was just checking on the progress of construction.
The owner had made a police report in the past, installed cameras, and asked neighbours to check if the man was still in the house on the fateful day when he became aware of the trespass. Seems he didn't really like trespassers snooping around his house.
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Originally Posted by boneyard1962
Thats a weak analogy and even more false comparison.
Arbery was observed looking around. The worst crime he committed at that point was a trespass in an unoccupied building that was under construction.
Witnessing a rape and then seeing the rapist again? That is an entirely different situation.
I saw a kid ride through the bottom part of my property on his bike. Not once but several times. Should I have chased him with my truck? Armed and ready to shoot if he resisted? That is exactly what the McMichaels did.
By the way, the kid in question was an 18 year old jerk, that the entire neighborhood was annoyed with. No one chased him, no one shot him. The police did arrest him when he was 22 for selling meth.
I was addressing another post where there was a statement that he hadn't witnessed a crime immediately before giving chase.
And saying, I believe correctly, that you don't have to catch someone in the commission of a crime at that moment if you have reason to believe he had committed crimes in the past.
Which McMichaels had a reason to believe.
He wasn't observed "looking around". He was observed going into the house, and after that you can't see him. Additionally, he was chased off. As he was the last time McMichaels knew of his presence in English's home. Chased off. It's hard give someone a pass on committing a crime when you chase them off after they've trespassed.
I don't think it has to be "at the moment". For example, if you're jogging on a trial and witness a man attempting to rape a woman and you scare him off, and then weeks later you're on the same trail again and notice a man in the bushes you believe to be the same man, you can affect a citizen's arrest.
Are you a lawyer?? Do you practice in Georgia??
Here is what an actual Georgia defense attorney thinks of the situation...
In the killing of Mr. Arbery, someone called 911 beforehand to say that a man was inside a house under construction. If that man was Mr. Arbery, and he was there without permission but stole nothing, then he could have been charged with trespassing, a misdemeanor, said Lawrence J. Zimmerman, the president of the Georgia Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers. That means, Mr. Zimmerman said, the men who went after him would not have been authorized to give chase,
Force can only be used to prevent a violent felony, Mr. Zimmerman said, adding, “What is not lawful is, you can’t detain somebody and then use force.” https://www.nytimes.com/article/ahma...w-georgia.html
This was a lynching plain and simple....
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