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Old 06-11-2020, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 23,903,106 times
Reputation: 14125

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cali Doll View Post
This will upset many of the faithful, no?

https://twitter.com/NASCAR/status/1270819350644211719

Apologies if I overlooked a thread on this.
Tool them long enough. Still not a fan of the modern point system. But NASCAR is like WWE, the France family knows what fans want more than the fans do... That is why NASCAR is losing ratings, not politics.
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Old 06-11-2020, 12:28 PM
 
25,447 posts, read 9,809,749 times
Reputation: 15338
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96 View Post
Because most people who are "offended" these days are purposely going out of their way to be "offended".

And not everyone agrees with your opinion of it's symbolism.

What if a significant amount of people decided that the "Black Power" fist symbol was offensive?

Would that make it so in your eyes?
You are right, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But things are changing, and we all will have to adjust. Or not. Nascar adjusted its stance, and that is their prerogative. The majority of the country will let their desires be made known, and things will change accordingly. I'm hopeful about the direction I see things going in. My opinion of course.

BTW, the core of the Civil War was indeed about slavery.
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Old 06-11-2020, 12:32 PM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
18,461 posts, read 7,092,496 times
Reputation: 11707
Quote:
Originally Posted by usayit View Post
No one is saying your can't have it in your home. Heck you can even fly it on your private property with all the consequence thereof... just like you are free to speak your mind but you are held accountable for what you say.

Your initial point was that it was erasing history... you are incorrect.

So without much leg to stand on, you default back to calling it Fascism which again is not.



Yet.
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Old 06-11-2020, 12:34 PM
 
Location: NNJ
15,074 posts, read 10,105,001 times
Reputation: 17270
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96 View Post
And the Civil War didn't become about slavery until Lincoln signed the emancipation proclamation to make it about slavery, three years after it began.
If you approach a straight male today in pubic and say "You look gay.", don't be surprised if he is offended. The same thing wouldn't be offensive to a straight male prior to the 60s.. probably take it as a compliment. It was the people of the 60s that redefined the context and meaning of what it means to be "gay".

You don't blame the today's straight male for being offended for being called "gay". It is what it means in the context of today. You don't get to define what it means to others... but you are certainly responsible for how it is interpreted within the context of today's society and times.

Similarly, you don't get to blame the people of today for being offended by the Confederate flag/symbol.. it is what it is within the context of today's context and time period. If anyone is to blame for associating the flag with racism it is the political figures and people of the Civil War time period... that includes Lincoln.
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Old 06-11-2020, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Native of Any Beach/FL
35,703 posts, read 21,063,743 times
Reputation: 14252
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96 View Post
Americans don't universally agree that the Confederate flag is a symbol of hate the way the Nazis did with the swastika etc.
Its their property, I'm good with that! I think that 100 by 100 Ft flag still flying on the out skirts of Tampa FL, on 1-4 is still there. Private property... we will leave them alone.
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Old 06-11-2020, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
18,461 posts, read 7,092,496 times
Reputation: 11707
Quote:
Originally Posted by trobesmom View Post
You are right, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But things are changing, and we all will have to adjust. Or not. Nascar adjusted its stance, and that is their prerogative. The majority of the country will let their desires be made known, and things will change accordingly. I'm hopeful about the direction I see things going in. My opinion of course.

BTW, the core of the Civil War was indeed about slavery.

Lincoln didn't sign the emancipation proclamation until 1863, two years after the war started. He did so to MAKE IT about slavery and garner more public support.
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Old 06-11-2020, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Native of Any Beach/FL
35,703 posts, read 21,063,743 times
Reputation: 14252
Quote:
Originally Posted by usayit View Post
If you approach a straight male today in pubic and say "You look gay.", don't be surprised if he is offended. The same thing wouldn't be offensive to a straight male prior to the 60s.. probably take it as a compliment. It was the people of the 60s that redefined the context and meaning of what it means to be "gay".

You don't blame the today's straight male for being offended for being called "gay". It is what it means in the context of today. You don't get to define what it means to others... but you are certainly responsible for how it is interpreted within the context of today's society and times.

Similarly, you don't get to blame the people of today for being offended by the Confederate flag/symbol.. it is what it is within the context of today's context and time period. If anyone is to blame for associating the flag with racism it is the political figures and people of the Civil War time period... that includes Lincoln.
If you approach a straight male today in pubic and say "You look gay.",

depending on age,,, maybe not might think you just messing with him.
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Old 06-11-2020, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Del Rio, TN
39,874 posts, read 26,514,597 times
Reputation: 25773
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryburgers View Post
Nascar is a dumb sport anyway. Real men watch Formula One.
Nah, that's for Democratic voters and latte slurpers. Real men watch motorcycle racing. Check out the Isle of Man TT sometime-them dudes are NUTS! Not sure how the ride a bike with balls that big.
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Old 06-11-2020, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Del Rio, TN
39,874 posts, read 26,514,597 times
Reputation: 25773
Quote:
Originally Posted by usayit View Post
If you approach a straight male today in pubic and say "You look gay.", don't be surprised if he is offended. The same thing wouldn't be offensive to a straight male prior to the 60s.. probably take it as a compliment. It was the people of the 60s that redefined the context and meaning of what it means to be "gay".

You don't blame the today's straight male for being offended for being called "gay". It is what it means in the context of today. You don't get to define what it means to others... but you are certainly responsible for how it is interpreted within the context of today's society and times.

Similarly, you don't get to blame the people of today for being offended by the Confederate flag/symbol.. it is what it is within the context of today's context and time period. If anyone is to blame for associating the flag with racism it is the political figures and people of the Civil War time period... that includes Lincoln.
In the 60s and 70s (and IIR most of the 80s even) being gay meant being happy. It had nothing to do with one's sexual preference, which was why it wasn't offensive. Try calling someone a "bundle of sticks" in that time frame-it wouldn't have been appreciated. Or even a homo.
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Old 06-11-2020, 12:41 PM
 
Location: NNJ
15,074 posts, read 10,105,001 times
Reputation: 17270
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96 View Post
Lincoln didn't sign the emancipation proclamation until 1863, two years after the war started. He did so to MAKE IT about slavery and garner more public support.
So the people who are really to blame for associating the Confederate flag with racism is Lincoln, Jefferson, the politicians and people of that time.
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