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I think the word used was "animus", which is "hostility or ill-feeling".
And no, I don't believe you can be against gay marriage without feeling a "hostility or ill feeling" toward homosexuality or gay marriage.
It's the same argument that has been used by racists and segregationists. I don't hate them, we're just following the Bible's teachings that cultures shouldn't mix.
I get that you believe that one can't be against gay marriage without feeling hatred or animosity toward homosexuality or gay marriage (and really not trying to change your mind), but plenty of people believe the opposite.
Taking your argument to its logical conclusion, one might argue that you can't be opposed to anything without hating it. I think that is a stretch, both in this case and otherwise.
And, heck, completely irreligious people can hold the views I described on marriage for the purpose of procreation, thus the Bible's teachings can have nothing to do with it.
Curious, though, do you believe that one who is against plural marriage hates polygamists or polygamy? I was raised in the Islamic faith, where polygamy is sanctioned. While I am opposed to polygamy, it has nothing to do with hatred of polygamists or polygamy.
I'm opposed to a whole host of things that have zero to do with hatred. Quite frankly, I'm used to certain things and don't always like change. But that doesn't = hatred inherently. That could very well just merely mean resistance or hesitancy toward change due to one being unfamiliar with the proposed change and being familiar with what they were accustomed to.
Beware of clients fishing for a law suit
This is not the first time a cake baker has been played
Those they sue usually don’t share their political views
Turn your malice into cash- call sleazy breezy law office inc
Only because you can't tell at a glance who's gay.
But yes, when a gay person orders a wedding cake or tries to reserve a wedding venue, you can tell.
And there comes the discrimination.
Ok then, you should be able to point out many incidents of gay couples not being shown homes, or being turned away from or kicked out of eating establishments and movie theaters, denied flowers or catering services for birthday parties, etc..
The 29 year-old womsn has lived in the area her whole life; the 25 year-old for 10 years. I'm sure they've received plenty of insults, hostility, and harassment on a personal level. But denial of services by businesses ? I doubt it.
I won't go back for links to all the ssm court cases. I'm pretty sure in every case the business owner served [and some employed] gay indivisuals and couples in every way Except marriage. Those owners didn't have animus, hostility, anger, ill-will, toward gay people in general.
Last edited by jazzarama; 12-26-2020 at 08:41 AM..
Of course, the business owners would say that your interpretation is what is flawed.
Note, regardless of who has the "correct" interpretation, I'll generally always be on the side of more inclusion vs. exclusion.
There are biblical scholars who hold to pro-LGBT interpretations of scripture.
There just aren't any who can defend them under proper academic scrutiny. This is because of an interesting property of scripture.
Without getting too abstract, this supposedly primitive text has features that anticipate deliberate misinterpretation.
This is the bane of today's liberal Christians.
As soon as they contort meaning into the text not intended by the author, to postmodernize it and make it more palatable (for example, to pro-LGBT or gender-egalitarian ethics) they break the meaning in a dozen other places, rendering it untenable.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzarama
Ok then, you should be able to point out many incidents of gay couples not being shown homes, or being turned away from or kicked out of eating establishments and movie theaters, denied flowers or catering services for birthday parties, etc..
The 29 year-old womsn has lived in the area her whole life; the 25 year-old for 15 years. I'm sure they've received plenty of insults, hostility, and harassment on a personal level. But denial of services by businesses ? I doubt it.
I won't go back for links to all the ssm court cases. I'm pretty sure in every case the business owner served [and some employed] gay indivisuals and couples in every way Except marriage. Those owners didn't have animus, hostility, anger, ill-will, toward gay people in general.
We're just going to have to disagree on this. Our experiences are different.
The business owners made their views known, which they were within their rights to do. The potential customers let everyone else know the owners' views. What's the problem?
If you're willing to turn away business based on a flawed interpretation of an interpretation of an ancient text, then stand by your decision.
Exactly this. If you're so sure your views are correctly and that God's on your side, why be cagey about what you believe? Broadcast it! You should have no problem with people making your views public for all to see, if you're correct and justified. If you're hiding, you're lukewarm (which years of Sunday School assure me God gets really salty about), or you're ashamed because on some level you know you're wrong.
I know that Jesus Christ said love one another as I have loved you, and let the first without sin to cast the stone.
This thread, in this forum, will probably be shut down for being religious in nature. But until that happens, I'll go you, toe to toe.
Yes, but you are not addressing the issue. I'll repeat, what did he say about marriage? Marriage is the subject being discussed. Cherry picking around the subject doesn't address the question. If adultery is committed I could quote your same passage above, but it doesn't mean everyone should run around committing adultery.
Reading your posts, it is unfortunate you feel even though a business unquestionably serves gay people on a regular basis, when called upon to perform a service which is in direct conflict to their religious beliefs, the refusal is due to hatred and animosity. That seems a very narrow vision.
I won't try to improve on the comments of others who have pointed this out to you in very competent ways which you won't accept, so I will leave you to dwell in your judgement and contempt for this/these business owners, all the while 'loving them as Christ loved you'.
That it's better to become a eunuch than to get married?
The philosophy of, 'if you don't know the answer, make one up'.
Quote:
Exactly this. If you're so sure your views are correctly and that God's on your side, why be cagey about what you believe? Broadcast it! You should have no problem with people making your views public for all to see, if you're correct and justified. If you're hiding, you're lukewarm (which years of Sunday School assure me God gets really salty about), or you're ashamed because on some level you know you're wrong.
I believe the business did make their beliefs known. Nothing cagey about that. Isn't that what this thread is about? Isn't that why they have received so many descriptive adjectives on this forum? They have not expressed any regrets or apologies over their decision.
It’s not Christian values. They’re just bigots.
Last I knew Christianity told you not to judge each other; that was the big mans job and he could judge you for being judging.
They aren't judging. Its you who are judging.
They are simply refusing to participate in something they don't believe in.
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