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That is a problem with pandemics. They had it rough in 1918 too.
In 1918, anything in the way of "lock down" was done VOLUNTARILY. People did what they presumed they had to do to not catch the flu. They used common sense. Nobody had to tell them to. That very deadly flu killed mostly people 15 - 40 yrs old. Not so much elderly or sick people.
Did I miss something? Did they say, wear a mask and go to work? Because I'm pretty sure if they had, they'd be no need for the massive funding --- and we wouldn't be where we are now.
The people demanded to go to work ---- the government said no.
Pathetic.
Right. People were even told that masks weren't necessary. Now they want to keep changing what happened to blame people who had their lives uprooted and/or destroyed.
Snow flakes because we want to preserve freedom and our natural Rights, while you want to give all responsibility and power to Big Government. You are just delusional.
You want to preserve your freedom while our healthcare system is being overloaded. They are exhausted and understaffed. Many have died treating patients. Oh, but you want your freedom and rights with absolutely no regard to anyone else. How selfish of you.
Man, overall humans have it so much easier then our ancestors did due to advancements in medicine, science, economics, social progress etc. etc.
We Americans are complaining and resisting reasonable temporarily restrictions way more then other nations about "our freedoms" with social restrictions due to a global plague. It makes us look rebellious, entitled, selfish, uncompassionate and spoiled.
I wonder if our ancestors who lived through the Black Plague, Spanish flu, and other global events where we didn't even know what a germ was or how they are spread and who didn't have ventilator and other medical technologies and didn't have pain relieving medications would like to switch places with us. My bet is on they would. Hardship compared to then because we are socially locked down for a few months....?
Lockdowns started in March. This is the end of December. That's more than "a few months."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikala43
Do you really believe the stuff you write?
I mean it's a pandemic, if you ever read any of the government pandemic manuals, all this was there. Why? It's how you minimize deaths. Masks, social distancing, etc.
If everyone had just followed those simple steps, we wouldn't be where we are today.
The population itself is to blame for the gov't having to shut things down.
The government shut things down before the masks and such were mandated. We were originally told we didn't need to wear a mask.
I'd say we've done a good job keeping people alive that wouldn't be even 30 years ago. We have brought this upon ourselves with smoking/over eating/not exercising, etc.
Maybe. But in alternative view, if chain-smoking were still rampant, and various other early-mid 20th century bad habits were still prevalent, a larger portion of the population would be dying in their 60s or early 70s, instead of their 80s or 90s. Just imagine how that would have changed the allocation of our finances, in healthcare and beyond. This being a hypothetical, I'm not advocating for such a scenario, but I would like to raise awareness that there is, after all, a tradeoff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by natalie469
You want to preserve your freedom while our healthcare system is being overloaded. They are exhausted and understaffed. Many have died treating patients. Oh, but you want your freedom and rights with absolutely no regard to anyone else. How selfish of you.
Maybe. But again, an alternative view would be that persons with perhaps few resources, seek advanced and costly treatment, that is provided, ultimately at the expense of taxpayers who themselves need no such treatment. Isn't that a bit... selfish? And so, not only is a contingent of the population subsidizing such care, but are further inconvenienced in such basic liberties as freedom of assembly and freedom of movement... all while being taken to task, at the slightest squeak of protest.
That reminds me of the old refrain, that whenever marginal income-tax rates get lowered, it's because those greedy fatcat millionaires are being indulged in their selfishness. Oh, such unconscionable villainy!
Having gratuitously indulged in one hypothetical already, allow me to venture with another. Suppose that in our overloaded healthcare system, we take the same approach as in the apocalyptic novel, "On the Beach". The government distributes doses of suicide pills. In due time, every citizen is issued such a pill. There, as now, the goal is the same: to minimize suffering. 'Rona symptoms severe? Pop the pill.
There. Have I adequately passed from merely selfish, to outright ghoulish?
Maybe. But in alternative view, if chain-smoking were still rampant, and various other early-mid 20th century bad habits were still prevalent, a larger portion of the population would be dying in their 60s or early 70s, instead of their 80s or 90s. Just imagine how that would have changed the allocation of our finances, in healthcare and beyond. This being a hypothetical, I'm not advocating for such a scenario, but I would like to raise awareness that there is, after all, a tradeoff.
Maybe. But again, an alternative view would be that persons with perhaps few resources, seek advanced and costly treatment, that is provided, ultimately at the expense of taxpayers who themselves need no such treatment. Isn't that a bit... selfish? And so, not only is a contingent of the population subsidizing such care, but are further inconvenienced in such basic liberties as freedom of assembly and freedom of movement... all while being taken to task, at the slightest squeak of protest.
That reminds me of the old refrain, that whenever marginal income-tax rates get lowered, it's because those greedy fatcat millionaires are being indulged in their selfishness. Oh, such unconscionable villainy!
Having gratuitously indulged in one hypothetical already, allow me to venture with another. Suppose that in our overloaded healthcare system, we take the same approach as in the apocalyptic novel, "On the Beach". The government distributes doses of suicide pills. In due time, every citizen is issued such a pill. There, as now, the goal is the same: to minimize suffering. 'Rona symptoms severe? Pop the pill.
There. Have I adequately passed from merely selfish, to outright ghoulish?
You must be talking about Rudy. Guess who paid for his treatment which was the same as Trump's.
Did I miss something? Did they say, wear a mask and go to work? Because I'm pretty sure if they had, they'd be no need for the massive funding --- and we wouldn't be where we are now.
The people demanded to go to work ---- the government said no.
Pathetic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yspobo
Right. People were even told that masks weren't necessary. Now they want to keep changing what happened to blame people who had their lives uprooted and/or destroyed.
Originally, it was not wear them (you're right and) because the medical personnel, needed them. Wear a scarf or bandana, or the mask not of N95 quality. And it wasn't mandated --- the lock downs were mandated; masks, after the supply chain was able to catch up, then the masks mandates happened.
Yes, they do keep changing what happened and what is happening now --- at no time did the Federal or States, even Republican ones did they say --- wear a mask, (scarf or bandana) social distance and go to work.
If they hadn't done that, then this would not be going on now:
"Nadeen Bender stood outside her home, a tattered two-man tent, surrounded by the re-purposed Amazon Prime boxes she uses to store her life’s belongings."
When does the middle class become poor class? When the government throws them down a few flights ---
In 1918, anything in the way of "lock down" was done VOLUNTARILY. People did what they presumed they had to do to not catch the flu. They used common sense. Nobody had to tell them to. That very deadly flu killed mostly people 15 - 40 yrs old. Not so much elderly or sick people.
There is no "lock down" in the US today. No one is locked in, and compliance is voluntary.
They were told what to do in 1918, including using masks, and there could be fines if they did not comply.
"The City Council passed the resolution, placing influenza on the list of quarantineable infectious diseases. Portland police and the county guards were called on to help the health department’s twenty officers enforce the quarantine, although private physicians were warned that they did not have the authority to forbid patients to leave their homes. The next day, health inspectors and police officers were busy placing the white and red placards on the homes of the ill. The penalty for violating quarantine – either leaving or entering a placarded home – was a fine of $5 to $300 and five to ninety days in prison. Instantly many cases of influenza turned into the common cold as people tried to avoid the quarantine. One woman, surprised to wake up to find her home under quarantine, called the health department in anger to ask why a placard had been tacked to her front door. She was told that her family physician had reported her son as having influenza. “Well, I’ll certainly call him up and roast him,” she angrily replied, “as my boy only has a slight cold and he got up this morning and went to school.” A man who found himself placed under home quarantine called the health department and claimed that he was not only strong enough to go to work, but 'plenty strong enough to come up to the health office and "clean" the health officer.'
One expected side effect of the quarantine was a drop-off in the number of cases of influenza reported by unscrupulous physicians. It was widely believed that many city doctors were over-diagnosing influenza in the hopes of making a few extra dollars from patients. Officials hoped that this practice would end with the use of quarantine, and that the new case tallies would show a sudden decrease. Alas, these results did not materialize in the days immediately after the quarantine order went into effect. Some physicians did attempt to change their former reports of cases in order, but only to relieve their patients of the onerous burden of quarantine. The health department announced that it would be happy to assist physicians who had made honest mistakes, but that it would give no consideration to those trying to help get their patients out of quarantine. Evidently the health inspectors thought the latter was more common, as the health department roundly ignored all requests made by physicians. Portland’s quarantine, like any other throughout history, was far from perfect."
CNN. Well, that figures. Pathological liars with some weird agenda.
Masks and fines in 1918? No. Re-written history (CNN-style?). Except for military bases that was NOT the case. My parents lived through it and never mentioned that. They did close the schools for a spell (actually a couple times). But in those days polio epidemics aroused much more preventative behaviour than the flu did.
The resort city I spend my winters in is locked and bolted for all intents and purposes. The Canadians stayed home. This place will take many years to recover from this.
But let's get specific. Handing someone a menu and forcing them to order food in a BAR? That's lockdown. (stupid and pointless; virtue signaling? - but lockdown?). You do not go to a bar to eat. You go to a bar to drink. Period.
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