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Old 03-02-2021, 11:25 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,029 posts, read 14,216,690 times
Reputation: 16752

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SunGrins View Post
It is better for Canada to spill their oil in the US than in Canada. They can ship boatloads of grain, lumber, and ore out of Prince Rupert to China but can’t figure out how to ship crude oil?
Pesky Rocky Mountains in the way?
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Old 03-03-2021, 08:32 AM
 
22,923 posts, read 15,500,035 times
Reputation: 16962
Quote:
Originally Posted by vacoder View Post
Their is no american demand for that crude. It is not competitive in the U.S. Costs too much to refine. XL Oil is strictly meant for foreign markets.
Jeebus! If there is no "American" demand for it, why then is the U.S. importing 98% of it?

Again: https://www.oilsandsmagazine.com/mar...-us-refineries

Why then did the U.S. oil companies pay billions to refurbish those refineries? Why then is Canada your largest supplier of imported oil? "Importing" means "purchasing" it. It is not considered a U.S. import if it's merely "passing through" on it's way for export. It must be purchased and change ownership to the importing country to be listed as an "import" AND royalties be paid to the exporting entity, again showing change of ownership, as has been shown many times in here by the most vocal of opponents in their own provided links.

https://cdn.ihs.com/ihs/cera/The-Rol...Oil-Supply.pdf

US Crude Oil Imports by Supplier Countries 2019

Understanding WHY there is U.S. demand for that crude would help you better understand that fact.

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/...nd-exports.php

Without that cheap and convenient crude availability, you'd have to use your own better quality crude or import it from elsewhere to service the U.S. demand to maintain energy security. You're not using it domestically but for examples of supplying domestic manufacturing your shampoos and plastics, but without it you'd have to use someone else's and import from elsewhere to do it - ergo - American demand.

It's the same thing as you importing iron ore and other foreign commodities so American companies can make cars to be sold for profit exported overseas. AMERICAN DEMAND!!!!

Last edited by BruSan; 03-03-2021 at 08:48 AM..
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Old 03-03-2021, 08:38 AM
 
22,923 posts, read 15,500,035 times
Reputation: 16962
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunGrins View Post
It is better for Canada to spill their oil in the US than in Canada. They can ship boatloads of grain, lumber, and ore out of Prince Rupert to China but can’t figure out how to ship crude oil?
Just two words for this one:

LAC MEGANTIC:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lac-M%..._rail_disaster

Fancy that, eh? An American owned train carrying American owned and shipped Bakken oil, through Canada on an American owned and maintained rail route, left unattended by American operators, with a known faulty brake system, and non observance of individual car brake setting protocols - wiping out almost an entire Quebec, Canada town and killing 47 Canadians.

The irony is resplendent.

Last edited by BruSan; 03-03-2021 at 09:10 AM..
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Old 03-03-2021, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Morrison, CO
34,237 posts, read 18,594,984 times
Reputation: 25807
Nothing wrong with American companies buying foreign oil to refine and sell elsewhere. It is called COMMERCE. Why are Leftists so ANTI Capitalist?
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Old 03-03-2021, 09:11 AM
 
9,639 posts, read 6,022,039 times
Reputation: 8567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chocolatecake1977 View Post
Sucker? Doubt it. Tax revenue? Guaranteed. Jobs? Guaranteed.
A couple dozen permanent jobs.

Not worth it. Go talk to all the landowners that don’t want their land seized for it.
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Old 03-03-2021, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Midwest
38,496 posts, read 25,830,486 times
Reputation: 10789
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
Have it your way. Now let's achieve something else, you've once again suggested Canada is exporting it to Asia when in fact it is not. It is exporting the crude to the U.S. The primary seller of that Canadian crude oil to those growing Asian markets is those American entities who purchased 98% of it at source. That is why it's listed as an American import as they are the 98% buyer and the ultimate seller overseas.
America is taking the high risk to our land to supply oil to China! That is exactly why I have a problem with the Keystone pipeline!
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Old 03-03-2021, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Midwest
38,496 posts, read 25,830,486 times
Reputation: 10789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
Nothing wrong with American companies buying foreign oil to refine and sell elsewhere. It is called COMMERCE. Why are Leftists so ANTI Capitalist?
Its going to China. In fact China was involved in the development of the Keystone pipeline.

The Canada-China Foreign Investment Promotion and Protection Agreement (Fipa).

Quote:
This agreement, ratified in 2014, was negotiated by the previous Harper government. It was passed without a vote in Parliament. Fipa, which remains in place until 2045, was signed to ensure that China got a pipeline built from Alberta to BC, among other benefits
Quote:
China was already investing heavily in the oil sands. In 2009, PetroChina bought a 60% interest in two undeveloped oil sands projects, containing an estimated 5bn barrels of oil. And in 2013, the Chinese state-owned CNOOC purchased the third-largest Canadian oil and gas company, Nexen, for $15.1bn. China needs the oil to help fuel its industrial growth.
Quote:
In the case of the Fipa with China, it notably allows Chinese energy companies to challenge local, provincial and federal policies or laws that interfere with their “right” to make a profit from energy projects. So any environmental regulations, or halted pipelines, or First Nations land claims, could be subject to lawsuits brought by Chinese corporate interests.

Did Canada buy an oil pipeline in fear of being sued by China?
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Old 03-03-2021, 09:55 AM
 
22,923 posts, read 15,500,035 times
Reputation: 16962
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
America is taking the high risk to our land to supply oil to China! That is exactly why I have a problem with the Keystone pipeline!
And you will be doing absolutely nothing whatsoever to mitigate that 'lesser risk than the alternatives' by cancelling the pipeline. What about that do you not understand?

That oil will still move through your country regardless by far more dangerous and otential for polluting methods unless and until YOUR country stops buying it.

The two parts of your platform I am challenging:

You state: It is Canada driving this expansion. It is not - Canada will advantage an American demand for the product - no more, no less than foreign ore/electonics/plastic moldings mfgrs advantage the demand by U.S. car makers to produce cars for export.

You state: Environmental concerns will be serviced by stopping a portion of the XL. They will not. It has been long known that pipelines are far safer than trains, trucks or boats. The emissions into the atmosphere of diesel trains, trucks and boats to haul this crap notwithstanding, the land it goes under is for the most part returned to it's previous usage by the owner of record who then gets paid for the access granted.

I'm on record as not being a proponent of this pipeline as it merely cements our reliance upon the U.S. to keep buying the stuff as our primary customer. It also does nothing for our providing a resource for others to profit from when Canada should be doing all it can to gain ALL of those profits for itself.

Cancelling of the pipeline does nothing to change that other than provide yet another wake-up call regarding American duplicity when the product continues to be purchased in bulk by a foreign entity that Canada is obligated via treaty to sell to at any quantity demanded, to then be sold for profit to other foreign entities, some of whom have nothing but the U.S.'s demise as a world power as their ultimate goal.

You're tilting at the wrong windmill. Your bogymen are all living in your own basement.
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Old 03-03-2021, 10:06 AM
 
22,923 posts, read 15,500,035 times
Reputation: 16962
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
Its going to China. In fact China was involved in the development of the Keystone pipeline.

Yes it is, but not before being purchased before coming out of the ground by Americans, shipped for profit by Americans, processed for profit by Americans and sold for profit by - Americans.

Well, except for that huge refinery bought by the Saudi's on your Gulf Coast to purchase the stuff to also sell to Asia. https://tankterminals.com/news/saudi-arabia-bought-north-americas-largest-oil-refinery/#:~:text=Saudi%20Arabia%20is%20America's%20second, to%20the%20Energy%20Information%20Administration.& text=Saudi%20Aramco%2C%20through%20its%20wholly,Te xas%2C%20and%2024%20distribution%20terminals.

Like I said just above, stop buying ours, then we can stop buying yours and everyone's a happy camper, eh?

But, then you'd have to use more of your own and import more of it from other less than reliable/friendly entities and there goes your energy security right out the freak'n window. I sure don't have any problem with that scenario.
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Old 03-03-2021, 11:03 AM
 
Location: The High Desert
16,097 posts, read 10,762,339 times
Reputation: 31519
Americans are not the consumers of this oil. China is. American globalist corporations selling the Canadian-source oil to China are creating a false demand in the US that is misconstrued as American buyers and consumers. The oil industry is risking our country's resources, environment, and safety, with no sense of responsibility, to make an obscene middleman profit on Canadian crude. Who will foot the bill for a spill disaster? The US taxpayer and landowner. If China wants Canadian oil and Canada wants to supply it, let Canada and China take the risk.
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