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Ad hominems about conspiracy theories are the mark of a failed argument-- whenever you have nothing in the way of an intelligent response, just accuse the other side of a "conspiracy theory", and you get to fantasize about sounding intelligent. The link was from a Pfizer press release, and when a company's stock price depends on constant stream of good news about a product they're putting out, that by definition is a biased source. Any reasonable person would view such a source with skepticism.
Elizabeth Holmes put out years' of press releases claiming she had this incredible product to quickly test people's blood, and critics and questioners were attacked in the press as "conspiracy theorists". It took years before the truth came out. And it's way, way too early to be making such claims about a product with less than a year of evidence. As we've said a million times, we are not anti-vaxxers and we and our kids and grandkids have gotten all our scheduled vaccines because they're backed by decades of good data. Even the COVID19 vaccines, which are experimental and without even a year of data, we ourselves will probably eventually get due to our high risk status. But it is foolish to say the least to argue that these vaccines have anything in the way of the solid data that a vaccine with 20 or 30 years of data has, with a proven technology backing it. Reasonable people have every right to be skeptical about this and demand a lot of evidence, and to point out the contradictions within certain claims. The problem with the data from Israel you keep harping on is that Israel has also had one of the tightest lockdowns in the world, has everything to do with the reduced infections there. It is not possible to make such conclusions with the limited data so far available. That's called science. And there is also a lot of contradictory data to sort through, like the many cases now of vaccinated Americans still coming down with COVID and spreading it. Many of the vaccinated people in this article died from COVID or went to the hospital because of it. Obviously, even with the vaccine, you can get COVID, and you can spread COVID if you have bad enough disease to go to the hospital. That's the reality whether you like it or not. And before you cite the claimed effects of the vaccines in countries with heavy lockdown, look up the phrase correlation vs. causation.
The Israeli data came from HMOs in Israel, not from Pfizer, so when you claim the source is biased in order to pump up the stock price you are describing a conspiracy. Pfizer had no control over that data.
Elizabeth Holmes is irrelevant.
Should we wait 20 years to use every new vaccine? While the disease the vaccine prevents is killing people every day? How many deaths do you consider to be acceptable?
The effect of the vaccine separate from the effect of the lockdown can be seen in the difference in the stats for the various age groups as the vaccine was rolled out, so, no, the lockdown does not have everything to do with it. It is possible to draw conclusions from the data. Also, people were not fully vaccinated until after the lockdown went into effect in early January. Everyone was under the lockdown, vaccinated and unvaccinated.
"'What we see here are early and very encouraging signs that the vaccine is working in the population,' says Florian Krammer, a virologist at Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City.
The drop in case numbers and hospitalizations might not be solely down to vaccines, however. In January, the government imposed a nationwide lockdown in response to the country’s raging epidemic.
But Eran Segal, a computer scientist at the Weizmann Institute of Science in Rehovot, Israel, and his colleagues who have analysed the government data say that vaccines contributed to the declines in cases and hospitalizations of older people, because the drops were larger and occurred sooner in that age group than in younger people. And the difference in case numbers between people older than 60 and younger people was most pronounced in cities where at least 85% of older people had received their first vaccine dose by early January.
Segal and his team did not observe these trends during the national lockdown in September, before vaccines were rolled out. “All of this is telling us that vaccines are really beginning to have an effect on the national numbers,” he says.
Yes, some vaccinated people will get infected because the vaccine did not work for them. For better than 90% of those who are vaccinated they are not getting infected and not spreading the virus. Vaccinated people are not getting seriously ill and dying. The mRNA vaccines are close to 100% effective in preventing serious illness. In addition, many of the infections in vaccinated persons are happening either right before the vaccine was given or in the time frame before it is effective.
My 87-year-old cousin and his 67-year-old wife were fully vaccinated a month ago and both currently have COVID. He is in the hospital. She should be in the hospital.
My 87-year-old cousin and his 67-year-old wife were fully vaccinated a month ago and both currently have COVID. He is in the hospital. She should be in the hospital.
We've been hearing more and more about cases like this, and the news reports (despite their reluctance and trying to stick to a happy sounding narrative) are slowly being forced to admit it too. It's the only way cases could be rising as fast as they are throughout the United States, it doesn't make sense that it would be only unvaccinated people getting sick. There must be a lot of people who've gotten the shot and are falling ill like this with COVID.
Do your cousin and his wife by some chance know if they contracted one of those new COVID mutants, or just the same old COVID strain like before? Not sure which is worse, but again our own doctors are warning us the immunity from the shots may not last that long, esp for those in higher risk groups who get infected. Sending out hopes that they recover, sorry to hear about it.
It's the only way cases could be rising as fast as they are throughout the United States, it doesn't make sense that it would be only unvaccinated people getting sick.
Ninety five percent of those getting sick will be unvaccinated, and the 5% who were vaccinated will not get as sick and are within a whisker of 100% not going to die.
Ninety five percent of those getting sick will be unvaccinated, and the 5% who were vaccinated will not get as sick and are within a whisker of 100% not going to die.
Cool, so no need at all to mandate covid vaccines or implement vaccine passports or even pressure people who don’t want the vaccine into getting it. We can stop the insanity. Finally!
Cool, so no need at all to mandate covid vaccines or implement vaccine passports or even pressure people who don’t want the vaccine into getting it. We can stop the insanity. Finally!
It depends on how many of the unvaccinated get sick and are hospitalized and need ICU care.
It depends on how many of the unvaccinated get sick and are hospitalized and need ICU care.
No it doesn’t. We are willing to take the risk, time to stop worrying. Hospitals will not get overwhelmed by the small percentage of us who don’t want the vaccine.
2 died out of 1.2 million people who were vaccinated. The vaccine is more effective than we could ever have hoped.
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