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https://abcnews.go.com/Health/100-fu...ry?id=76784838
Now yes, we know there's a lot to this story and it doesn't say the vaccine is ineffective, in fact in the first part they do seem to indicate that the rate of bad infections seems to be lower, they were mostly mild infections. But then again even unvaccinated people also mostly get mild infections. The case rate does seem to be fairly low for those who got the shot. (Although who knows, correlative vs. causative and all that, maybe the vaccinated group took stronger precautions anyway, and since cases in Washington were way down anyway before the vaccine came out, the infection rate in unvaccinated is also really low). It's really not very cut and dry how effective the vaccines are in the real world, outside the controlled situations of clinical trials and especially a month or two out, since the trials really didn't follow people for very long to make those claims of being 95 percent effective.
For those of us on the fence, more and more stories like this are raising flags about how effective the vaccines really are as more data come in. We've been on the fence about it and our doctor was hedging again when he had a recent distance medicine visit-- clearly the vaccine helps for some, but they've been seeing more cases at the hospital of people getting badly sick with COVID19 even fully vaccinated, which the article did indicate, and they're saying the cases are rising the longer after the second shot someone is. So maybe immunity is wearing off pretty fast, at least some for patients. And as for this part, since it'll probably be brought up--
"The Washington State Department of Health is also investigating two potential breakthrough cases where the individuals died. Both patients were over 80 years old and suffered from underlying health issues."
Sure, but once again even among unvaccinated people, younger and healthier people rarely die from COVID or even get serious cases. Even among high-risk seniors the large majority survive without complications. Tbh we can see why COVID causes such controversy and polarization, largely because it can be dangerous but usually isn't, and doesn't give us clear cut answers. If it were something really dangerous and scary like smallpox or plague, sure a vaccination decision would be easier, even a rushed vaccine with new technology like the mrna vaccines which haven't had enough testing on a big scale to know long term issues. (Less than a year, when even vaccines using known tech in the past generally had about 10 or 12 years).
This really is a hard decision with dilemmas for a lot of people and it's hard to say with broad brushing whether someone should take it or not. But if anything that should against just emphasize that the decision has to be personal and individual. It's a terrible and stupid idea to make a vaccine passport or vaccine mandate when we still understand so little. And even with that little we do understand, it's clear the vaccines don't stop viral spread and even fully vaccinated people get seriously ill, possibly more and more the longer someone is after the second shot. And even then we don't know much at all about protection with all the mutants going around. At least let's just drop the dumb vaccine passport idea, and especially drop the idea of vaccinating kids who are at very little risk of getting sick from COVID, the flu is more dangerous to children! We'll probably still get the shot eventually once we have more info, at least on how long protection lasts, but no way we'd let our kids or grandkids get the shot with less than year of safety and effectiveness data. If any public health authority demands that our grandkids get a vaccine for school, they'd better have a solid 10 years of data on hand to show it's safe and effective over the long term, with no dangerous effects otherwise or side effects on fertility, which wouldn't come out until years later. If authorities start trying to force this vaccine in any way, esp. for kids, they're gonna have a fight on their hands. There's still too little known about it.
This is out of 1.2 million people, and did any of those 100 people die?
The biggest risk in this scenario are people who aren't vaccinated who have a double whammy in having much better odds in getting the virus and more uncertainty as to whether they will get an asymptomatic or very mild infection or one that kills them or debilitates them long term. It's even riskier for the unvaccinated person who isn't wearing a mask, observing physical distancing, and good hand washing hygiene.
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/100-fu...ry?id=76784838
Now yes, we know there's a lot to this story and it doesn't say the vaccine is ineffective, in fact in the first part they do seem to indicate that the rate of bad infections seems to be lower, they were mostly mild infections. But then again even unvaccinated people also mostly get mild infections. The case rate does seem to be fairly low for those who got the shot. (Although who knows, correlative vs. causative and all that, maybe the vaccinated group took stronger precautions anyway, and since cases in Washington were way down anyway before the vaccine came out, the infection rate in unvaccinated is also really low). It's really not very cut and dry how effective the vaccines are in the real world, outside the controlled situations of clinical trials and especially a month or two out, since the trials really didn't follow people for very long to make those claims of being 95 percent effective.
For those of us on the fence, more and more stories like this are raising flags about how effective the vaccines really are as more data come in. We've been on the fence about it and our doctor was hedging again when he had a recent distance medicine visit-- clearly the vaccine helps for some, but they've been seeing more cases at the hospital of people getting badly sick with COVID19 even fully vaccinated, which the article did indicate, and they're saying the cases are rising the longer after the second shot someone is. So maybe immunity is wearing off pretty fast, at least some for patients. And as for this part, since it'll probably be brought up--
"The Washington State Department of Health is also investigating two potential breakthrough cases where the individuals died. Both patients were over 80 years old and suffered from underlying health issues."
Sure, but once again even among unvaccinated people, younger and healthier people rarely die from COVID or even get serious cases. Even among high-risk seniors the large majority survive without complications. Tbh we can see why COVID causes such controversy and polarization, largely because it can be dangerous but usually isn't, and doesn't give us clear cut answers. If it were something really dangerous and scary like smallpox or plague, sure a vaccination decision would be easier, even a rushed vaccine with new technology like the mrna vaccines which haven't had enough testing on a big scale to know long term issues. (Less than a year, when even vaccines using known tech in the past generally had about 10 or 12 years).
This really is a hard decision with dilemmas for a lot of people and it's hard to say with broad brushing whether someone should take it or not. But if anything that should against just emphasize that the decision has to be personal and individual. It's a terrible and stupid idea to make a vaccine passport or vaccine mandate when we still understand so little. And even with that little we do understand, it's clear the vaccines don't stop viral spread and even fully vaccinated people get seriously ill, possibly more and more the longer someone is after the second shot. And even then we don't know much at all about protection with all the mutants going around. At least let's just drop the dumb vaccine passport idea, and especially drop the idea of vaccinating kids who are at very little risk of getting sick from COVID, the flu is more dangerous to children! We'll probably still get the shot eventually once we have more info, at least on how long protection lasts, but no way we'd let our kids or grandkids get the shot with less than year of safety and effectiveness data. If any public health authority demands that our grandkids get a vaccine for school, they'd better have a solid 10 years of data on hand to show it's safe and effective over the long term, with no dangerous effects otherwise or side effects on fertility, which wouldn't come out until years later. If authorities start trying to force this vaccine in any way, esp. for kids, they're gonna have a fight on their hands. There's still too little known about it.
Did they say how many new covid cases they had during that same time period in people who were not vaccinated. Curious about that.
16% of the population in the state are fully vaccinated. Of those, 100 have gotten covid. How many non vaccinated have gotten covid in that same period? What percentage of the population?
It's a huge win if we can prevent most hospitalizations from COVID-19.
Some of them were hospitalized and some even died.
For regular folks,
“Once infected with the new coronavirus, a 20-something has about a 1% chance of illness so severe it requires hospitalization, and that risk rises to more than 8% for people in their 50s and to nearly 19% for people over 80, a comprehensive new analysis finds.”
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/100-fu...ry?id=76784838
Now yes, we know there's a lot to this story and it doesn't say the vaccine is ineffective, in fact in the first part they do seem to indicate that the rate of bad infections seems to be lower, they were mostly mild infections. But then again even unvaccinated people also mostly get mild infections. The case rate does seem to be fairly low for those who got the shot. (Although who knows, correlative vs. causative and all that, maybe the vaccinated group took stronger precautions anyway, and since cases in Washington were way down anyway before the vaccine came out, the infection rate in unvaccinated is also really low). It's really not very cut and dry how effective the vaccines are in the real world, outside the controlled situations of clinical trials and especially a month or two out, since the trials really didn't follow people for very long to make those claims of being 95 percent effective.
For those of us on the fence, more and more stories like this are raising flags about how effective the vaccines really are as more data come in. We've been on the fence about it and our doctor was hedging again when he had a recent distance medicine visit-- clearly the vaccine helps for some, but they've been seeing more cases at the hospital of people getting badly sick with COVID19 even fully vaccinated, which the article did indicate, and they're saying the cases are rising the longer after the second shot someone is. So maybe immunity is wearing off pretty fast, at least some for patients. And as for this part, since it'll probably be brought up--
"The Washington State Department of Health is also investigating two potential breakthrough cases where the individuals died. Both patients were over 80 years old and suffered from underlying health issues."
Sure, but once again even among unvaccinated people, younger and healthier people rarely die from COVID or even get serious cases. Even among high-risk seniors the large majority survive without complications. Tbh we can see why COVID causes such controversy and polarization, largely because it can be dangerous but usually isn't, and doesn't give us clear cut answers. If it were something really dangerous and scary like smallpox or plague, sure a vaccination decision would be easier, even a rushed vaccine with new technology like the mrna vaccines which haven't had enough testing on a big scale to know long term issues. (Less than a year, when even vaccines using known tech in the past generally had about 10 or 12 years).
This really is a hard decision with dilemmas for a lot of people and it's hard to say with broad brushing whether someone should take it or not. But if anything that should against just emphasize that the decision has to be personal and individual. It's a terrible and stupid idea to make a vaccine passport or vaccine mandate when we still understand so little. And even with that little we do understand, it's clear the vaccines don't stop viral spread and even fully vaccinated people get seriously ill, possibly more and more the longer someone is after the second shot. And even then we don't know much at all about protection with all the mutants going around. At least let's just drop the dumb vaccine passport idea, and especially drop the idea of vaccinating kids who are at very little risk of getting sick from COVID, the flu is more dangerous to children! We'll probably still get the shot eventually once we have more info, at least on how long protection lasts, but no way we'd let our kids or grandkids get the shot with less than year of safety and effectiveness data. If any public health authority demands that our grandkids get a vaccine for school, they'd better have a solid 10 years of data on hand to show it's safe and effective over the long term, with no dangerous effects otherwise or side effects on fertility, which wouldn't come out until years later. If authorities start trying to force this vaccine in any way, esp. for kids, they're gonna have a fight on their hands. There's still too little known about it.
If people are getting sick and dying after being vaccinated they were most likely either already infected when vaccinated or infected before the vaccine took full effect.
A virus that has already caused over half a million deaths in the US alone is not "really dangerous and scary"?
There are years of research behind mRNA technology. It did not just spring into existence in March, 2020.
Some of them were hospitalized and some even died.
For regular folks,
“Once infected with the new coronavirus, a 20-something has about a 1% chance of illness so severe it requires hospitalization, and that risk rises to more than 8% for people in their 50s and to nearly 19% for people over 80, a comprehensive new analysis finds.”
Most people who get covid don’t end up in the hospital with or without the vaccine .
Most is not all.
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