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View Poll Results: Should Russia Be Treated as a Civilized Nation for International Relations Purposes?
Yes 10 45.45%
No 7 31.82%
Other (please explain in post) 5 22.73%
Voters: 22. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-13-2022, 07:48 AM
 
Location: New York Area
35,081 posts, read 17,033,734 times
Reputation: 30246

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Why Are Ordinary Russians so Impoverished If They Have the Resources to Fight Ukraine? Inquiring minds must wonder. See Russia continues to amass new troops near Ukraine's border. Russia is well-known for the relative poverty of its ordinary people. See Child Poverty in Russia (link), excerpts below:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Child Poverty in Russia blog post
Russia is one of the world’s largest exporters of oil. As such, those that control the oil industry generate great wealth. However, this leaves many others to suffer in poverty. The nation has a high unemployment rate, but people who have obtained employment often suffer as well. The minimum wage in Russia is among the lowest of all developed countries. The monthly minimum wage in Russia is 12,310 rubles, which is the equivalent of $196.


Additionally, 26% of Russian children live off of close to $150 per month. Child poverty in Russia is most prevalent in rural areas, as many do not have access to employment opportunities in the city. The majority of children living in poverty reside with their families. Most families have three children and are often unable to sustain themselves with their current income.
This is not new. See Blood and Oil in the Orient: My childhood in Baku and my hair-raising escape through the Caucasus by Essad Bey a/k/a Lev Nussenbaum, among other books, details Russia's history of grinding poverty. See my review for this book on CD. See also The Orientalist: Solving the Mystery of a Strange and Dangerous Life by Tom Reiss.

One wonders why the people put up with the massive diversion of resources from, among other things, oil sales to pay for wars to conquer other poverty-stricken countries. One wonders also why the West is enabling this with allowing the Northstream Pipeline to proceed (yes there is a cosmetic pause but it will resume) and why the West allowed Russia to be at the table at the G-VIII for so long? Russia is not acting as a proper civilized nation.
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Old 01-13-2022, 08:04 AM
 
18,460 posts, read 8,287,342 times
Reputation: 13784
The bigger question is why would Russia even want Ukraine?....it's busted, broke, the majority living in poverty

...unless they want it for another pipe line....or it's just an easy target

but if they get it...they're going to have a lot of mouths to feed
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Old 01-13-2022, 08:09 AM
 
Location: New York Area
35,081 posts, read 17,033,734 times
Reputation: 30246
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrie22 View Post
The bigger question is why would Russia even want Ukraine?....it's busted, broke, the majority living in poverty

...unless they want it for another pipe line....or it's just an easy target

but if they get it...they're going to have a lot of mouths to feed
That's making a very large assumption that they'll feed them. Stalin thought better about that. Google Holodomer.
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Old 01-13-2022, 08:34 AM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
9,366 posts, read 14,319,337 times
Reputation: 10098
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrie22 View Post
The bigger question is why would Russia even want Ukraine?....it's busted, broke, the majority living in poverty

...unless they want it for another pipe line....or it's just an easy target

but if they get it...they're going to have a lot of mouths to feed
Ukraine does have good farmland, especially for grains, in fact renowned even in antiquity.

Crimea and other Black Sea ports are strategically important.

Western powers have invaded Russia many times over the past 900 years or so, and Russia occasionally counter-attacks.

I don’t think the Russians want to invade Ukraine, they just don’t want NATO military assets so close to them on such strategic territory.

I don’t think either side wants the Ukrainians themselves as human beings.

I don’t know how this is going to be resolved, but I don’t expect full-scale war, more likely long-term mutual harassment. I could imagine Russian bombing of military bases in Ukraine, but not an overt full-scale invasion with ground troops.

I wouldn’t take it for granted that ordinary Russian think in terms of easy access to consumer goods like those in the west.

I wouldn’t want to live in Russia, but I don’t think anyone there is starving to death, and at least some of them have interesting careers in science, technology, academia, and the arts.
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Old 01-13-2022, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Minnysoda
10,659 posts, read 10,732,353 times
Reputation: 6745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrie22 View Post
The bigger question is why would Russia even want Ukraine?....it's busted, broke, the majority living in poverty

...unless they want it for another pipe line....or it's just an easy target

but if they get it...they're going to have a lot of mouths to feed
You know the Russians have a history of starveing the ukrainians to death right... Like millions of them..... look up Holodomor. To the OP I would say what the differance between them and US? Have you seen to homless population in this country?
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Old 01-13-2022, 09:11 AM
 
1,503 posts, read 608,006 times
Reputation: 1323
Quote:
Originally Posted by my54ford View Post
You know the Russians have a history of starveing the ukrainians to death right... Like millions of them..... look up Holodomor
I have a Brooklyn Bridge for sale. That's as true as that^ story.
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Old 01-13-2022, 09:39 AM
 
26,784 posts, read 22,567,030 times
Reputation: 10040
I have a better question - why jbgusa was not concerned with 2 million Russian children that became homeless as the result of the "economic reforms" orchestrated by the IMF/Clinton/Summers, but is preoccupied with "child poverty" in Russia now?



Inquiring minds want to know.
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Old 01-13-2022, 09:57 AM
 
26,784 posts, read 22,567,030 times
Reputation: 10040
Quote:
Originally Posted by bale002 View Post
Ukraine does have good farmland, especially for grains, in fact renowned even in antiquity.

Crimea and other Black Sea ports are strategically important.

Western powers have invaded Russia many times over the past 900 years or so, and Russia occasionally counter-attacks.

I don’t think the Russians want to invade Ukraine, they just don’t want NATO military assets so close to them on such strategic territory.

I don’t think either side wants the Ukrainians themselves as human beings.

I don’t know how this is going to be resolved, but I don’t expect full-scale war, more likely long-term mutual harassment. I could imagine Russian bombing of military bases in Ukraine, but not an overt full-scale invasion with ground troops.

I wouldn’t take it for granted that ordinary Russian think in terms of easy access to consumer goods like those in the west.

I wouldn’t want to live in Russia, but I don’t think anyone there is starving to death, and at least some of them have interesting careers in science, technology, academia, and the arts.

This is the biggest problem in the whole story.

I'd rep, but I can't.
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Old 01-13-2022, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Embarrassing, WA
3,405 posts, read 2,737,076 times
Reputation: 4417
Russia wants:

Control of the pipelines that run though Ukraine.
Control of the large Ukrainian oil refineries.
Ukraine's "warm water" seaports.
Ukraine's military bases, and therefore the end of any US/NATO occupation and military assistance.

There is two simple words for why the masses of people there live in poverty: Corruption and Oligarchy.
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Old 01-13-2022, 10:11 AM
 
117 posts, read 39,218 times
Reputation: 175
No ruling class of any country gives a damn about its citizens. The pandemic has proven this. The majority of people in Russia are indeed very poor but this is how the Russian elites have decided they want to run the place. It's much worse in some other countries, much better in some. In the USA, it's much better for the majority of people.
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